Honda cars less dependable than Toyotas?

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I don't know. I had better luck autocrossing the Fairmont than the 280Z. My 280Z was the very early ones with the HUGE bumpers. They weighed a ton and could knock down buildings. I had a little old lady in a Chevy repeatedly back into mine when she was trying to make room to get out of a parking space and she didn't leave a scratch on the front bumper. The 1975 280Zs were also jacked up compared to earlier 240Z's. This was done to put the bumpers at the "correct" height. All this really screwed up the handling. It rolled in turns worse than the Fairmont and didn't have near the power. I think a good driver (not me) probably could have out run the stock 280Z on any course with the Fairmont. I am sure if I had lowered the Z and installed better shocks and tires it would have done better, but I kept mine stock. I think the most disappointing thing about the Z was how slow it was. Top speed was less than 120 - and the only time I got that was on a long down hill run. Of course they only claimed 140 HP (net / 170 gross) for the engine and mine only had the 4 speed. With a 5 speed I suspect the top speed could have exceed 120. My 280Z weighted close to 3500#, and the Fairmont wasn't much different. The bumper standards really hurt the 280Z.
Still I loved it. Wish I had it today (well minus the ineveitable rust).
Ed
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C. E. White wrote:

The 280Z weighs well under 3,000 pounds, right around 2800 pounds iirc.
I dropped that about 100 pounds by removing the bumpers from both of mine and a friend with a 1977 model adapted a set of the smaller bumpers from a 240Z with very nice results.
Also, I owned a 1978 280Z with a 5-speed and a 1976 280Z with a 4-speed, and the 280Z with the 4-speed was the faster top-end car because it had a little more power after some "upgrades".
That 280Z hit the maximum speed in 4th gear, 5th was basically an overdrive.
My brother had a 1971 240Z with a 350 V8 conversion, now that was an interesting car.
Pat
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My sister had a 260Z,and I found it would only reach 115MPH.
I was very disappointed at the time,as a guy in a Caddy was trying to kill me with his car,and passing me easily(the LLB kept trying to run me off the road).My sister was in the passenger seat at the time,hysterical. I eventually escaped him by subterfuge and a pack of traffic. He went for the head fake.
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Jim Yanik
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I cut my teeth at a Datsun performance shop in the late '70s, and worked on these things for 3 years. We sold a performance package, springs struts and sway bars that really made the Z cars and 510's come alive. It was an invaluable education, learning porting, cam set-up and valve geometry (chevy LUV rocker arms, selective lash caps and a ton of prussian blue) 5 angle valve grinding; knife edging cranks, shot peening rods, mod'ing SU's and Weber setup, distributer curving, diff setup and transmission o-haul including welding clusters all in house. I wasnt paid much but made real good money on the side. Ah..the good ole days.. Ben
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ben91932 wrote:

Yes, they could be made to handle quite nicely. My upgrades did little for the power but a lot for handling.
This is the front piece that I had on my 280Z.

It did not do much for protecting the hood, but it looked nice, imho, and weighed a LOT less than the tank bumpers.
The rear bumper was removed and smoothed over, a lot of people thought that I was driving a 240Z.
Might be time for me to subscribe to a Datsun newsgroup too.............
Pat
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On 03/23/2010 04:31 AM, C. E. White wrote:

right ed. the cheapo chinese componentry your client is using our tax dollars to make their crap with is really /just/ as reliable as anything made here or in japan...

yeah, washing the car prevents solder joint cracking and changing the oil extends fatigue life.

yeah, ed. you're a reliable source with no vested interests.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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Name me one company that isn't purchasing components in China. As I pointed out to you before, if your goal is to purchase the vehciles with the highest domestic content, you would, on average, buy from GM. (see http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/07/domestic-parts-content-and-automakers.html and http://tinyurl.com/yzdsl5e ).
Do you really think that Toyota and Honda are not purchasing parts from China? If so, you need to pull your head out of the sand.

Maybe not, but changing engine oil and filters in a timely manner can extend the life of the engine. Addressing small problems before they become big ones is important. Do you think that proper maintenance is not important?

Thank you. It means a lot to me that you recognize my worth. You know you have made it when the delusional are praising you.
We all have interests. I enjoy reading about cars and like to share my opinions. You are welcome to disagree with them. Your ridiculous claims that I am posting my opinions as part of a job for some unspecified entity are just crazy talk.
I don't mind having people disagree with me. I don't like people accusing me of unethical behavior. My opinions are my opinions. They are not posted as part of any "job." I never post anything on usenet related to my actual paid employment. I am willing to post things related to my farm, since I only have myself to answer to in that area.
I am particularly offended by your claims that I in some way support sending US jobs offshore. I have the exact opposite opinion. Over the last 32 years I have watched as job after job has been sent to the Far East (Japan, China, India, etc.). People I know and respect have lost their jobs because money grubbing executives see shifting jobs offshore as an easy way for them to maintain their bonuses. I don't take issue with the individual Chinese, Indians, and Japanese - they are people just like we are. However, I do take issue with governmental policies (both US and foreign policies) that have made it easy and profitable to shift jobs overseas.
I think it particularly hypocritical that you attack Chinese suppliers while defending Japanese suppliers. I can't see how you can legitimately attack GM for out sourcing while driving a Honda. At least be consistent.

You need to drop this tag line. It is not correct Latin.
"Dico rutila rutila" is probably "more" correct.
Ed
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On 03/23/2010 07:56 AM, C. E. White wrote:

so you think it's ok for the american taxpayer to be exporting their own jobs to china?

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/07/domestic-parts-content-and-automakers.html
that ed, is a classic bullshit cite from you. [you probably wrote it.]
none of the so-called "statistics" are verifiable. and the concept of a 80% domestically manufactured vehicle being rated down to 40% because of some unexplained bullshit "weighting" is completely ridiculous.

for us-destined vehicles ed, they generally avoid it. japanese car manufacturers have had nothing but bad experiences with chinese componentry, part because of poor quality, part because of ip theft, so they minimize their exposure as much as possible. the stuff they do make there is destined to be sold there, and it's the crap that's way down the innovation list.
but you knew all this - you're just trying to twist the facts. and trying to ignore the american jobs japanese car companies create when they manufacture here.

red herring. but you knew that.

that's it ed - wriggle and squirm.

wriggle and squirm ed. i'm right on target and you know it.

part 1 - the passive-aggressive set-up!

part 2 - the passive-aggressive switch!

your bulls eat astroturf???

this is the retardation of your anti-toyota astroturf campaign ed. you and your fellow shills. you /think/ you're "great patriots" because you're "supporting a great american corporation", but reality is, you're backing completely the wrong horse. gm has done nothing but suck on the taxpayers teat for the last 20+ years. now they're doing it AND sending their jobs to a military aggressor and competitor. that is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. and WRONG.
the fact that you either can't or won't acknowledge this means you and your kind are simply aiding the destruction of american domestic manufacturing. the very opposite of patriotic in fact.

listen retard, japanese, german and korean manufacturers are allies. china is not. not only that, china devotes massive resources to wholesale american ip theft, vast sums to shift american political policy in its favor [human rights abuses that we never do a damned thing about? environmental pollution that is poisoning the oceans and our pacific states? execution of dissidents that we never even acknowledge, let alone protest?] and here you are, taking the gm dollar to astroturf against toyota, and aid gm's chinese job creation and ip "export". ed, you seriously need to get a clue.

er, you're getting that from an online "translator"/dictionary ed. you are not conjugating correctly. but getting things right is not something you do, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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On 03/23/2010 01:33 AM, Cameo wrote:

<http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?Feed=OBR&Date 100318&ID282915&Symbol=F>

1. the only toyota "fiasco" is that of p.r., not anything mechanical or electronic. it was cooked up by the g.m./sympathetic whitehouse retards who didn't have the brains to realize that it might have legislation consequences from which they'd be the biggest losers if the proles got too upset.
2. if anyone believes that a 3-year [or average 36k mile] "survey" is indicative of lifetime ownership "reliability", they're smoking some mighty powerful weed.
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wrote:

Can't say as I haven't had a GM since about 1980 or so and that was the worst car I ever owned so I'm biased against GM and will always be. Best car I ever owned was Honda tho my Toyota Corollas come close so far. So I favor Honda from my ownership of cars.
Are you sure you want me to answer this question now <g> ?
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Let's see -
If I bought based on the best car for the money I ever owned, I'd be driving a Pinto.
If I bought based on the most reliable car I ever owned, I'd be driving a Mercury Sable.
If I avoided buying cars because of the worst car I ever owned, I'd never buy a Toyota or a Plymouth.
If I bought based on the favorite car I ever owned, I'd have to find another low mileage 2004 Thunderbird.
If I bought based on the safest car I ever drove, I'd have to find a 1969 Ford Country Sedan Wagon.
If I could buy based on what I'd like to have, an Audi R8 looks awfully good.
If I bought based on what I should be driving, I think it would be a Prius.
All cars are much better now than in 1980 (including Hondas - I remember my Sister's original Accord rusting away around her - that doesn't happen any more, at least not here). I think saying you won't buy this car or that car because of a bad experience (or even a good experience) from 30 years ago is probably not the smart thing, but I do understand it. I even suffer from it
I don't have anything against Hondas (my Sister has had two and both were mostly reliable) but I can't find any reason for particularly wanting one either. I liked the S2000 but they have quit making those. Accords are like Camrys...too uninspiring to buy except on price and they lose out on that to other cars. Civics are OK, but I want something larger. The CR-V seems overpriced. The Pilot is nice enough but way overpriced. And since I actually need a truck, I can't understand why I'd want a Ridgeline. I am not saying Honda products are unreliable or ugly, just uninspiring. I see some cars in ads and think, I'd love to at least test drive one of those. That never happens during a Honda ad (well except for the fuel cell car, but they don't offer those in my area).
One other thing - the best riding lawn mower we ever owned on our farm was a twin cylinder water cooled Honda. It was the quietest smoothest lawn mower I have ever used. We finally parked it because the parts got to be hard to find and expensive, but the motor, except for the carburetor, was in great shape. I'd buy another, except they quit making them like that. The Kubota we have now is probably a more rugged mower, but it is also twice as noisy.
Ed
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On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:02:21 -0400, "C. E. White"

You say GM has improved but others say not so in the end, it comes down to judgment and experience. Tho my experience may be dated, I still consider it worthy to a degree tho I don't rely solely on it. I don't care if you disagree, that's your opinion.
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On 03/23/10 13:02, C. E. White wrote:

How does a person like you or me determine something like this?
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On 3/26/2010 5:39 AM Tony Harding spake these words of knowledge:

I'm not sure I understand the question. He was talking about his own personal experience. You're asking how you make evaluations of your personal experience. If you don't know that, you've got much more serious problems than what car to drive.
RFT!!! Dave Kelsen
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Vaginatarian.

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On 03/26/10 07:20, Dave Kelsen wrote:

How does one decide on the "safest" car ever, the driver is such a *huge* variable? 1 fewer crash / 100,000 passenger miles, ...? OP did say "safest car he ever drove" and I assume he didn't crash them to gather safety data.
<not intended as a smart ass query, BTW, I'm curious how a person reaches such a conclusion>
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On 3/27/2010 6:20 AM Tony Harding spake these words of knowledge:

Perhaps he'll drive you. But I must point out that the driver is not a variable in this scenario. The driver stays the same.
RFT!!! Dave Kelsen
--
I like kids, but I could never eat a whole one.

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On 03/27/10 08:31, Dave Kelsen wrote:

True, but how does one reach such a conclusion?
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I'm more worried about those who -think- they're safe in a large vehicle,and thus take less care in their driving,making the rest of us less safe.Those who want US to look out for them.
I don't need a "safe" car,I need one that handles well,has great brakes,and is reliable. My manner of driving keeps me safe.
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Jim Yanik
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Persoanl opinions / experiences. The Pinto was cheap, got decent gas mileage, never failed, lasted forever.
The Sable was dead solid reliable. I drove it for 143,000 miles, sold to a freind who drove it past 200,000 before totaling it in a crash.
I had a 1981 Plymounth Reliant that was purchased new. It was in the shiop at least once a month for the 10 months that I suffered through owning it. It did drive nicely, when it was mobile. The 1983 Toyota Cressida was just a rolling POS. Something was constantly wrong with. I could count on a new alternator every summer. The paint just disolved. The interior plastic discolored and warped. The AC crapped out in less than 3 years. The automatic transmission failed, etc., etc. AND, it drove like a ten year old pick-up with half the cylinders disconnected. It was a horrid horrid waste of scrap iron.
I just loved the Thunderbird. Never should have sold it.
The 1969 Station Wagon saved my ife. I was only in one bad collision, and I came out without a scratch. The car was a tank. Even today, if you asked me to be involed in a crash with the most air bagged equipped Honda you can buy, or that '69 Wagon, I'd pick the '69 wagon.
Ed
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I don't know ... I really liked my '72 Olds Cutlass. But I also liked my '84 Corolla coupe with rear wheel drive. However, I like my current '94 Accord even more.
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