Honda's oil filter manufacturer

cameo wrote in news:k1ric0$dr2$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

I've also seen all those "looks equal performance" Web pages. Frankly, you'd have to be totally daft to believe them. And the writers are pretty daft to have written them in the first place.

15400-PLM-A02 is made by Honeywell's FRAM unit in Canada. 15400-PLM-A01 is assembled by Filtech in the US, from overseas parts (chew on that last nugget, Filtech fans...).

ALL Honda oil filters, regardless of where made, must meet Honda's performance standards.

As of 2002, here's what Honda says about all their oil filters, regardless of where made: "...filter out at least 70 percent of the particles that are 30 microns or larger, and 85 percent of the particles that are 40 microns or larger."

Honda considers the two filters identical and interchangeable. Whether a dealership orders A01 or A02, what's actually shipped to them depends entirely on warehouse stocks, and on no other factor.

Except for the fact that they are made by different companies using differing manufacturing processes, A01 and A02 are the same filter, meeting identical performance specs, with identical real-world behavior.

That's what I was thinking, too. However,

I'm not sure that 10 year old spec still holds, considering how Honda's quality is said to have suffered in the last several years. They may have cut corners (costs?) on the oil filters, too. Be as it may, I'll cut up the used up old Honda filter to see how well it stood up to the 3,750 miles of use. Just out of curiosity ...

cameo wrote in news:k1set6$764$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

Highly unlikely. If anything, modern filters may be BETTER than they used to be. Those new 0W-20 oils don't lubricate particularly well, which means it's even more critical that particles be filtered out of the oil.

Honda issues specs, and the filter makers have to meet them. Then Honda tells the OE how much Honda can /spend/ on the filter. How much it /costs/ to meet the specs is up to the OE, not Honda. Either way, the filter must meet the specs, no matter what.

Have fun. But you won't be able to tell a darn thing by looking at it. A device that's meant to trap particles of .0015" and under isn't going to lend itself to inspection by the naked eye.

i stopped using honda filters years ago when i discovered that their anti drain-back valves ALWAYS leaked. i found the filters made by champion labs to be adequate, and those made by wix to be much better - no valve problems with either.

and yet you can buy quality aftermarket filters that use 100% domestic parts.

but the fact is, they also fail a simple anti drain-back test after minimal usage, so you can only accurately say that they meet INITIAL performance standards.

that's not very impressive - many aftermarket filters do substantially better. example: wix oil filters go to 19 microns. check for yourself.

oem honda filters start to fail the anti drain-back test after only 1000 miles or so - i will therefore not use them.

you on the other hand continue to refuse to do this test or check performance data, so you're simply regurgitating dogma, not sharing actual knowledge.

where did you get them rose tinted glasses? at the "unquestioning dogma means not having to think and test" store?

only if honda can be bothered to test whether those specs are met. everybody in manufacturing plays games with the "meets specs" b.s. everybody is looking to cut costs all the time. got a load of tainted grain? put it at the bottom of the truck and put a layer of good stuff on top. got a load of tainted diesel? run the purchaser's stocks low for a couple of days and then deliver it when they're anxious to get supplies. supposed to deliver 1000kg of meat? make the first few bags good, then throw in a bunch of fat and water.

that's how you play the game tegger. honda don't test every filter. they rely on the manufacturer to say it meets spec. if they don't meet spec, honda simply won't know until there's an engine failure that makes it all the way back to corporate. and that's not happening because the symptoms are accelerated wear. and neither the shop that gets it nor you are qualified to differentiate between wear caused by normal use and wear caused by excess contamination, so it would never get sent back in the first place.

you don't even need to disassemble the filter to test whether the anti drain-back valve works. as you'd know if you'd ever bothered to do it.

How do you determine the valve leaks?

Interestingly, the OEM oil filter my mechanic removed during the oil change is different than the ones my local Honda dealer's part dept. sells. The part # on the old one is 15400-P0H-305 and looks almost identical in shape and construction to the Vix 51334, while the new filter by Honeywell (Part # 15400-PLM-A02) is about 13 mm smaller diameter and 10 mm longer and does not look as well constructed as the old OEM filter. Perhaps the older model was actually made by Wix but I don't know where the independent mechanic got it for the previous oil change.

After seeing how well it looks, I decided not bothering with cutting it.

let the engine stand for an hour or so, then remove the filter. if it's empty, the valve is leaking because it's let the oil drain past and back into the pan.

Hmmm. Many oil filters sit with the screw-in side facing directly up. How could the oil leak out?