How much brake fluid would ge good?

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'sup all,
I've got a 1993 Honda Accord and I'm going to change my master cylinder, as well as replace the brake fluid that's in there. I was thinking about letting gravity drain the fluid from the reservoir and
replace the fluid as it drains. Is that a good idea? I wonder if I don't get it all out, how would the two different (assuming just different in age) behave together? Old vs. New. I guess I should get a little bit more fluid to drain it good.
Then I was going to replace the Master Cylinder. I need to take the brake hoses off, but do I drain the reservoir first? Maybe until almost empty. my main quandry is How does air not get into the brake lines when I unscrew them from the old master cylinder?
How much brake fluid does anyone recommend I should get to drain the system fully and put the new MC on? I was thinking one of those big bottles, like 1Ltr. or something would do, though I don't know how much fluid the system even contains.
Could anyone help me with this? How much brake fluid is in the system? I don't want to run out, but I don't know what I'd do with alot of extra fluid either. maybe I'll just flush until I have enough to fill the MC plus a little bit more for later :) <grin>
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Old fluid conains water, its going to boil at a lower temp.

Doesn't matter, you bleed the brakes afterwards. only way, since there's gong to be air in the cylinder to push out as well

Always buy more - brake fluid isn't exactly 'honda coolant' price. Or, alternatively, buy lots of smaller bottles, since you can't really store open bottles (moisture gets in and it goes bad)

yep, pretty much, I think a 1l bottle should be plenty.
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I googled on this a few weeks ago, just before flushing my 91 Civic's brake system.
Seems one to two 32-oz. bottles is the consensus to flush the system. I used a little less than 32-oz after noting the fluid coming out was pretty clean.
I use a Mity-Vac vacuum pump to bleed the brakes. It takes a suction at the bleeder screws. A good one costs around $40. Available via Harbor Freight, among other places.
I'd be in the free online manual at www.autozone.com for your car for the master cylinder removal etc. directions. Or, better, use the factory service manual for your 93 Accord at http://www.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html

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scube wrote:

buy 32oz and use it all. disgard any surplus. best way to bleed the front calipers is to open the bleed nipple, then push the piston all the way back in. all the old fluid gets forced out. it's disgusting too. /then/ when you change the m/c, all the clean stuff coming through has a really good start. the rears are less important.
wash any brake fluid spillage off bodywork immediately with water. DO NOT WIPE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! trust me on that one.
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In addition to the other warnings (especially about cleaning it off paint without delay) I would add that brake fluid is an organic oil - if you leave rags contaminated with brake fluid in a pile they may spontaneously burst into flame.
Disposal is best done by dumping the old fluid back into the bottle - as mentioned, it doesn't store well once opened - closing it tightly and putting it into the trash. In theory it can be poured onto the ground because it is biodegradable, but that doesn't seem kosher when a better method is available. Or, I suppose you could burn it in an oil lamp....
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. It's pretty easy, and a lot more friendly on the environment, to store the old brake fluid and dispose of it at a repair shop usually for a small fee or dispose of it for free at a community household hazardous waste collection day (my community has those about 2 or 3 times a year and they're great for getting rid of small quantities of old chemicals, oil, etc).
Eric
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I'll go along with that - leaving the details to professionals at no cost to us. They may even have a recycling program. Thanks, Eric.
Mike
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Yep -- one still sees some advice about various means of informal disposal; but the most up-to-date thinking is that used brake fluid (or is it all brake fluid?) should be disposed of as hazmat. I think the issue is some kind of heavy metal that's in there. And since it's a glycol rather than a petroleum oil, you aren't supposed to put it in with your motor oil/tranny fluid either.
If your town has a household hazmat center, that's a good place to take it. Or see if the auto parts store where you bought the brake fluid will accept it.
As for how much to buy -- get the big bottle and a couple of little ones, or two big bottles (it isn't that expensive). Who wants to get cleaned up and schlep down to the auto parts store halfway through the job because they didn't have enough brake fluid? (Especially if you're working on your only car!) And an unopened, sealed bottle will last. Any opened bottle, on the other hand, should go into the waste bottle with the old stuff (preferably after being pulled through the system with your Mityvac or whatever other bleeding scheme you use).
Don't forget to bench-bleed the new master cylinder, too. In this and other aspects, follow the instructions in the shop manual for the car.
Finally: after doing any brake work, do not set the car in motion until you get a correct pedal feel, and proceed carefully for a few blocks (stopping repeatedly) until you gain justified confidence in the job.
Best of luck, --Joe
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scube wrote:

You can use a large syringe to remove all of the brake fluid from the master cylinder reservoir and then bleed the brakes as per the service manual's instructions.
Eric
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Okay,
Thanks for all the responses!!
From suggestions, I gather that I should empty the brake system first, and then replace the master cylinder. I can pump the new fluid into the system after I install the new MC, correct?
That sounds like a good Idea actually. I was going to flush AFTER installing the new MC, but I guess I could get some old/new fluids mixed together that way.
Has anyone tackled replacing a Master Cylinder?
I am concerned about setting the pushrod freeplay. Any suggestions? The honda manual has a special tool that is used, and Tegger's method of MC changes (at his website http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercylinderreplace/index.html ) uses an alternate and interesting approach as well. This would be my main concern, as I wouldn't want my brakes to slowly lock on me while driving, nor would I want them to not slow me down...<grin> Thanks all...
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scube wrote:

One more time...have someone there who has done more than one brake job before or have it done by a mechanic. It isn't something to <grin> about.

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i did it in my 88 civic december 04. had to walk to the advance to get the parts, walk back, and then fit it. Had to work kinda quick too, since my wife had to use it for a job interview the next morning (it was our only car at the time). alas, the house had no garage, or shelter, and was below freezing by the time i finished, at 2am. Did it on a similar age caravan about ayear ago, went much smoother, thanks to the practice. both times i had haynes manuals to help me through it.

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Thanks guys and gals,
this is great data. Has anyone come across problems/solutions to adjusting the freeplay on the pushrod? This was mentioned in the manual and from other sources. This is my main concern.
After removing the brake lines from the old MASTER CYLINDER is there any worries about getting air into the brake lines w/ the cylinder off? Do these brake lines have a valve or anything that opens when it gets screwed on to the master cylinder, or are they exposed to potential air contamination?
I appreciate it all...
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Here's what I did on my car ('91 Integra): http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercylinderreplace/index.html For pushrod adjustment, see parts 6 and 7.
Pushrod adjustment is one of the things I ended up having to do before my pedal felt correct.

I didn't have any problems with air getting into the lines. Read the link above and you'll see why.
--
TeGGeR

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
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Tegger, I've read your pages many times. I am just a little in the dark when it comes to knowledge about those fluid pipes that screw into the master cylinder. I've been browsing that topic at your site for a while now, though the only thing I found of this problem is : (I'm using a quote out of one of the pages at that link you provided) "The open hydraulics on the MC will start to drip as soon as you remove the fittings. The fluid in the lines didn't drip out, so no danger of air in the lines that way"
Can I ask a bit about this? I'm assuming the lines are stought enough that they don't sway much when disconnected from the MC and we can face them upwards so not to spill the fluid. I understand there will be some fliud dripping out, but I just want to be as certain as I can that I fully understand what you're saying about the procedure. Thinking about it just now I don't know that it would be horrible if a bit of air got in. I have to flush it anyways and the air should get bled out from that.
Thanks all for the advice...
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scube wrote:

they don't wave about, but don't bend them. there's enough flex there that you can move them temorarily out of the way, but again, do not permanently bend the metal pipes.

the fluid doesn't usually run out of the pipes unless you have a bleed nipple open downstream. [the pipe internal diameter is chosen specifically so that doesen't happen.] you can therefore, at a pinch, and this is not recommended, bleed the m/c direct at the pipe connectors and not even bleed the rest of the system. again, that's not recommended, but it can be done because the pipes don't usually empty on their own.

yes, fully bleed afterwards. use the full "have an assistant push the pedal to the floor" technique, especially on a new m/c as the preserving fluid that's in there can sometimes cause airlocks.

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"Preserving fluid"? Mine was bone-dry except for the little brake fluid they used as an assembly lube.
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TeGGeR wrote:

it's preserving fluid - taste it. brake fluid is hygroscopic and in a humid climate, where an uninstalled system is open like this, would rapidly corrode and seize all m/c's in storage. store an old m/c out in the garage for a season and watch what happens!
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Ah, well.
In any case, the OP ought to bench-bleed first, as that makes the installation quite a lot simpler and would eject any assembly fluid as well.
--
TeGGeR

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TeGGeR wrote:

may as well do it on the car. bolt on, connect but don't tighten the fluid lines, bleed away. good deal less messy than getting fluid all over your bench. the car has to be washed off after installation anyway.
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