Mid-Year Upgrade - 2012 Civic

Page 4 of 5  
I owned a 62 E-Type, drove it around Europe and had to sell it when I got orders to Vietnam. I should have stored it. Maintenance costs were immense, and the Lucas (the Prince of Darkness) electrical s were primitive, but it was supposed to be the road version of the D-Type racing Jaguar, so no consideration to creature comfort. Connolly leather, sure, but on a fixed bucket seat with only one adjustment, fore and aft. My Honda Prelude was much better, but in my heart of hearts I really miss that Jaguar. I never missed the Prelude. No heart.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"billzz" wrote in message
I owned a 62 E-Type, drove it around Europe and had to sell it when I got orders to Vietnam. I should have stored it. Maintenance costs were immense, and the Lucas (the Prince of Darkness) electrical s were primitive, but it was supposed to be the road version of the D-Type racing Jaguar, so no consideration to creature comfort. Connolly leather, sure, but on a fixed bucket seat with only one adjustment, fore and aft. My Honda Prelude was much better, but in my heart of hearts I really miss that Jaguar. I never missed the Prelude. No heart.
USAF 64 - 93. Had a Prelude as well and agree it did not have the heart the Jag had. But, reliable. The "gods" sent me to Japan rather than Vietnam -- bought a Honda CL 77 scrambler which was the only way to see the country. The Jag saved my life one night around Laredo TX. I was motoring around 100 mph when an ancient truck with no lights emerged in front of me. Only had time to cut the wheel -- skidded and recovered -- perhaps it was the Goodyear blue streaks and the Jags handling.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes. Two things have happened since the '80s: 1) models have gotten larger, as they tend to do over time (the Civic is no longer Honda's smallest model); 2) "safety" regulations have forced automakers to /really/ load-on the weight.
Crash regulations have gotten stricter and stricter over the years, especially with the newest side-intrusion rules. Crash-standards are responsible for at /least/ 500 to 1,000 lbs of body weight-gain since the late-'80s.
In spite of that, Mazda has made their 3,100 pound 3-series handle very nimbly. So an exciting car is not impossible, even with today's onerous legislation. Get with the program, Honda!
--
Tegger

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/27/2011 03:12 PM, Tegger wrote:

"nimble" is strictly relative and at one heck of a cost in gas consumption. my buddy got a new subie and was raving on at me about how great it handled and its performance. he'd been in my civic before, but i usually drive it in ticket avoidance mode, so he'd never seen what it could do. [it's got headers, a better cam and better brakes, but other than that, is pretty much stock.] i took him for a more "spirited" run and frankly, the civic ate the subie's lunch in a quite shameful way. he ended up giving the subie to his wife and getting a civic like mine. i should have taken him out in my old crx.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

http://www.inautonews.com/honda-civic-facelift-is-coming-in-early-2012
Panic has ensued, because Honda got caught being asshats. They forgot that the buyer holds the ultimate trump card: his feet.
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. Honda wanted to sell a $12,000 car for $20,000. They figured their reputation would allow that to happen.
The absolute arrogance of it all. Not to mention that they've plainly lost touch with what people want to buy.
Honda is the Asian GM.
In other news, Kia *has* created cars people want to buy--a whole lineup of them. The've spent the last 30 months bringing out fresh designs that work. And any mechanical issues, or NVH issues, or whatever are slight enough that people are willing to overlook them--because the buyer gets a car he wants to buy, one which isn't saddled with $10,000 of reputation snob pricing that the machinery itself can't back up.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote in message wrote:

http://www.inautonews.com/honda-civic-facelift-is-coming-in-early-2012
Panic has ensued, because Honda got caught being asshats. They forgot that the buyer holds the ultimate trump card: his feet.
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. Honda wanted to sell a $12,000 car for $20,000. They figured their reputation would allow that to happen.
The absolute arrogance of it all. Not to mention that they've plainly lost touch with what people want to buy.
Honda is the Asian GM.
gIn other news, Kia *has* created cars people want to buy--a whole lineup of them. The've spent the last 30 months bringing out fresh designs that work. And any mechanical issues, or NVH issues, or whatever are slight enough that people are willing to overlook them--because the buyer gets a car he wants to buy, one which isn't saddled with $10,000 of reputation snob pricing that the machinery itself can't back up.
I have had great service out of my 06 Accord I4 coupe EX. No problems so far with 90k miles. The design is (in my opinion) one of the better coupes Honda has produced. The current version simply is big and ungainly. I thought about Kia but am leery of the long-term quality and reliability. Their option package leaves me cold. If you want a sunroof you have to take a $2,900 option that gets you navigation and other gimmicks I don't want or need. The Kia appears to be a badge engineered Hyundai, which I suppose is OK. In sum, I think I will just drive my Accord another several years and play a waiting game.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/24/2011 08:56 AM, tww1491 wrote:

i'm hanging on to my 89 civic hatch. light, relatively fast, handles great. simple interior but excellent ergonomics. got to spend loadsa dough to beat that thing - its closest updated competitor right now is the current vw gti. and don't even /think/ of a honda competitor to the wrx or evo. pathetic.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

That's the ticket.
My aunt bought an 87 Civic sedan brand new, and over 10 or 12 years drove it for a TOTAL of 2500 miles--while changing the oil four times a year. Then she gave it all up and went into a senior center.
Base base BASE model, auto trans, dealer-installed Honda crappy A/C and radio. Roll up windows.
My sister in law bought that car for $2500. She drives it about the same; mostly it sits in the garage, and when it's out it goes only a few miles here and there.
I don't know how many miles are on it now, but I'm going to acquire that car in a few years. I have plans for it. They involve it being driven...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/24/2011 03:11 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/24/2011 03:11 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

i'm not so keen on the 87's suspension, but they're a still a zippy reliable little car.
there's a couple of points to keeping old cars on the road. if you do an accounting for the energy for the materials for producing a new car, the materials recycled for an old car, and the difference in fuel consumption, for a lot of cars, you need to do a lot of miles per year to make the new car balance. that's environmentally too, not just fuel costs.
furthermore, if you drive an old car like my civic which will do up to 42mpg freeway and is a solid 34+mpg overall average lifetime, and net it against the inferior gas consumption of a modern civic, the modern vehicle will /never/ come out ahead! thus, all we're told about buying modern cars to save the environment has to be carefully viewed, and is frequently misrepresented. so for as long as i'm able to source parts and don't crash it, i'm going to keep the 89 on the road, even as a second/third vehicle.
[with chicks, old cars are great gold-digger filters too.]
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
jim beam wrote:

Yes!
JT
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Somewhere on teh intarwebs GrumpyOne wrote:

Heh! My car is a 1985 New Zealand assembled (I'm in NZ) Honda City (AA) 5-speed manual (called variously Jazz or City, depending on what part of the world it was in). I have a 1987 version too that has frontal damage that I'm hoping to get fixed before my current one expires (it will be rust that takes it out, mechanically she's fine).
I'm an invalid, on welfare, with a chronic back injury. The City has a tall roof and the seats go completely upright, which is the only position that I can (relatively) comfortably drive in. Also, being a two-door, the driver's door opens nice and wide, meaning I don't have to contort my back much to get in and out.
I've removed the back seats to reduce weight as I don't have any friends anyway (can't afford them on what the government gives me). I change the oil & filter every six months (I've done 35,000kn in the five years I've had it) and I get very good mileage. I keep all of my fuel reciepts (have to, money's so tight...) and set the tripmeter each time I fill up. I use 6.4 litres per 100kms average on mixed driving (60:40 town/highway), Highway I can get it down to 5.2l/100km.
My first job out of school was working in a service station (I'm 50) and I've always been 'mechanically-minded'. There's no computer chips in this old girl so I can do most all of the maintenance myself, morphine/back allowing. (It does have 'electronic ignition' so I'm not constantly messing with breaker points.) The power-to-weight ratio is much better than every newer ~1.3l car that I've driven as a potential replacement. LOL, back when I was thinking of replacing it I'd be really relieved to get back into the City after a test-drive as it's so nippy.
The highway speed limit here is 100km/h and it'll do it all day. Once or twice I've been late and sat on 120km/h easilly, with more underfoot. I'm a 'driver', I used to like powerful cars but my situation put paid to that. However, that said, the City's still fun to drive. It gets off the line pretty quickly (nothing keeps up around town, between intersections) and feels very sure-footed. The once or twice that I've had to take radical evasive action due to road hazards the car has felt fine, I'm sure it's not going to let me down.
If I had more money (and a garage :-[ ) I'd buy the best example of this model that I could find and restore it at my own pace, paying for things I can't do like paint, so that I wouldn't have to worry about another type of car for the rest of my life. I like it *that* much. It's perfect for my needs, ultra-reliable, cheap to run, easy to park (although I have a 'mobility parking permit' anyway) and fun to drive.
Just thought I'd share. :-)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'm curious: why do you "have to" keep receipts just because money is tight?
(Money is tight everywhere; I'm wondering if I'm missing something important by not keeping receipts...)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Somewhere on teh intarwebs Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

I started keeping them so that, every six months or so, I can calculate average fuel consumption as either an early indicator of something going awry with the engine or as a sign that the air filter[*] needs replacing, timing should be checked etc. Each receipt has a note on it as to what type of driving took place (i.e. 'All around town' - 'Two long trips' etc.) and the tripmeter reading (since last fill).
I can do that from my desk in minutes. As an invalid it seems like a reasonable way of keeping my eye on (one aspect of) the car's health.
Oh, and the "money's tight" thing; It's not only so that I can check that the car's running economically, also I am at the not-so-tender mercies of our welfare system and am often called upon to show where my money's going. As a lot of my travelling is medically related (pharmacists will only dispense 7 days worth of 'narcotic' meds at one time f'r'instance, specialists aren't usually local...) and I need to produce evidence of my medically related vehicle costs.
[*] Consumables and parts for this car are getting increasingly hard to find. Honda themselves stopped supporting the car in 2005. I have a small stock-pile of some parts that I've bought from on-line trading sites, usually where parts shops are quitting their stock that's not moving or no longer in their catalogues.
Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/23/11 9:12 PM, tww1491 wrote:

Not trying to start a Christmas day fight here-- but it seems that most of the free world considers Honda autos to be safe, reliable, well-engineered, well-manufactured, fine-performing cars that are at least satisfying, if not fun, to drive. And they buy lots of them.
So how is it that the folks in this NG have an opposite view? Are they keen minded and perceptive automotive analysts whose penetrating assessments and specialized knowledge/experience reveal things the rest of us mortals miss? Or are they just a bunch of nay-saying bomb-throwers?
--
Just tell me mister, what fraternity would pledge a man like you?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the people here have a LOT of experience with Hondas of all ages. With that experience,you can make a better judgement,and these folks also don't have any vested interests in promoting Hondas.
IMO,Hondas have gotten BORING. No Prelude,no CRX.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And in the meantime, the competition has gotten LESS boring.
Ergo, the distance between Honda and the competition is RAPIDLY increasing.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with boring--as long as the car satisfies *other* needs, like reliability and fuel mileage. Whoops--sorry, Civic Hybrid, you can go home now. The traction batteries are shit, so much so that even Honda acknowledge it--and created a factory recall that kept the batteries technically "alive" for the purposes of warranty, but made them practically useless in daily driving. Civic Hybrid owners are experiencing mileage figures that are no better than Civic LX owners, who paid thousands of dollars *less* for their non-Hybrid cars.
Kia is busy putting their money where their mouth is, while at the same time Honda is spending its reputation like a drunken sailor at a whorehouse by bringing out crap like the 2011 Civic and crappy transmissions while simultaneously dropping its customer goodwill program like a hot rock.
Have the two things crossed yet? Maybe. In five years, will Honda be wistfully looking at Kia sales and remembering the good old days? Quite likely, if Kia continues to put effort into things.
Everything that made people loyal Honda owners between 1972 and 1999, Honda is happy to eliminate as quickly as is practical for the sole purpose of short-term financial gain.
When Kia comes out with the next 1999 Honda Odyssey, which spent five years (!) at the top of the market selling for list plus, I'll laugh my ass off.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/25/2011 09:53 AM, Douglas C. Niedermeyer wrote:

in finance, that kind of "forward looking" statement has to be legally disclaimed with the words: "historic performance is no guarantee of future performance". there are no such restrictions on the "analysts" that simply regurgitate auto company press releases. they don't do long term testing and they /certainly/ never do failure analysis.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Douglas C. Niedermeyer" wrote in message
On 12/23/11 9:12 PM, tww1491 wrote:

Not trying to start a Christmas day fight here-- but it seems that most of the free world considers Honda autos to be safe, reliable, well-engineered, well-manufactured, fine-performing cars that are at least satisfying, if not fun, to drive. And they buy lots of them.
So how is it that the folks in this NG have an opposite view? Are they keen minded and perceptive automotive analysts whose penetrating assessments and specialized knowledge/experience reveal things the rest of us mortals miss? Or are they just a bunch of nay-saying bomb-throwers?
--
Just tell me mister, what fraternity would pledge a man like you?

I left the frat scene back in 1964 when I graduated. 30 years in the USAF
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That's called Honda's "reputation". It was built honestly by the sweat of a firm that listened to its engineers.
Reputation is a bank account, and Honda is depleting its account ever more rapidly every year.
Remember, at one point the customers bought GM cars hand over fist.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.