My Si has a DX motor!

That's what I was wondering, if the block was the same and the longer stroke was from a different crank. Thanks for confirming that.

Well, I haven't talked to anyone yet about doing this, I'm just at the point of doing research online to see what's involved. Most of the swap sites I've looked at state that new motor mounts are required to plug a B16 into a CRX, and the favored choice seems to be Hasport. As far as axles, again, given the significant power increase, I've not seen too many recommendations for using the D16/D15 axles, and I was also under the impression that they didn't bolt directly up to a B16.

But yeah, your point about "professional" is well-taken - there's no real way to know if modifications of this sort were done correctly unless you've done them yourself or you have a shop you can implicitly trust to do the job you ask them to do without screwing you over. I'm definitely not interested in building a show car, or trying to squeeze as much power as possible out of a setup that spends more time being tuned and repaired than being driven. I'm more interested in building the CRX that it seems like Honda everywhere but in the US, namely, a naturally-aspirated, B16-powered one with somewhere between 160-200hp that will be driven daily. However...

Again, good points. A ZC would certainly be easier, and a lot cheaper, but I assume you're talking about a tuned one? I've never heard of a stock ZC with 160hp. I'm in Texas, so the smog laws are not nearly as much of an issue as they are in CA.

I'm still wondering exactly what it is that I have under the hood in my car - it's starting to sound like someone blew the original 1.6 motor and either swapped in a D15 or used a D15 block and crank with perhaps some D16 internals to get it running again.

Thanks for the advice - maybe I'll start with a ZC swap and see how long it takes me to get bored with that. :-)

Dave

Um, no, you should have opened the hood and looked and known exactly what you were buying.

The used car dealer's job is merely to present the car to you. It's not his job to be your friend, hold your hand, and look out for your best interests. You're on your own.

That's not meant to be mean; it's simply reality. It's time you owned up to the fact that you live in reality.

Did you do a carfax? What did it say?

Dave Garrett wrote in news:MPG.20230477ba6480a198a15c@207.14.116.130:

So I guess it is an Si then.

But in any case you're supposed to have a D16A6 in there. At least according to my CRX factory shop manual.

Hmm. I'm looking at your Owner's Manual right now. It does not show a sticker in that location. The shop manual does though, but that sticker should only show the VIN, not the engine number. The engine number is only on the block.

Some markets (Japan for instance) required automakers to record the engine number on a plate within the engine compartment (usually above left front wheel). I don't think this was ever done for our market.

That's weird - I assume you're looking at the online version. I have an hardcopy manual here which I just got, and page 97 in it is identical to the online version, except the diagram shows an additional arrow for "Engine Number" pointing at the location I mentioned above, and the text reads "The Engine Number is stamped on the engine block at the right front side and on the identification plate on the radiator support bulkhead." It's a 1990 manual, and it has American Honda's address on the back cover, but it was printed in Japan.

Dave

As I said in my first post, it's entirely possible the dealer had no idea about this - as jimbeam said, it's difficult to tell the difference between the two engines externally. I'll admit there's no way of knowing now, and so some of my previous comments were probably ill-advised; I shouldn't be accusing the dealer of bad faith without proof.

What I have a problem with is *if* the dealer knew, and knowingly misrepresented the car as an Si when it did not have an Si engine. I'm well aware that in "reality", used car dealers screw customers every day.

Dave

If the dealer knew...

Sometimes, this works to the buyer's advantage, too.

My last Dodge Caravan was bought from a local Dodge dealer, used. When I went there, he offered me a test drive, explaining that it was a

4-cylinder, but had plenty of power.

I drove it, and was certain that it was a 6. I had previously owned 2 6 cylinder 3.3L caravan's, and this one had the same feel, power-wise.

When he went in to get me a final price (based on it being a 4), I popped the hood, and verified it was a 3.3L. It had only 30K on it, and I walked away with it for just over $8,000.

I sure as hell wasn't telling him they had it marked wrong... ;-)

Dave Garrett wrote in news:MPG.20232ee8bef55bf298a15e@207.14.116.130:

I am. From American Honda itself.

According to Honda, the online version is the final one, embodying all the additions, supplements and corrections issued since the paper one was printed.

It's entirely possible the diagram in your printed manual is in error. Like I said before, some markets did require the engine number to be on a plate separate from the engine, and it's possible the wrong diagram was used in the print version you've got.

Best case, the dealer has a system that matches the VIN with the car's configuration from the factory. That's all he knows.

Car dealers aren't experts on cars. They're experts on getting people onto the lot and to buy cars.

i haven't done a b16 swap so am not an authority, but some of the motor mount stuff is more to do with having the lump anchored more firmly rather than /needing/ to do it for positioning. if you can, check honda part numbers and compare.

on some of the hybrids, there can be shaft length differences which necessitate different shafts - don't get suckered into the need to do it for the extra power thing. /any/ stock shaft the right size will do the job - the question is, how long it lasts. unless you're racing all the time, stock shafts will be fine.

zc. twin overhead cam.

for others. getting 200hp out of a 1.6 is hard work and i'm not aware of any stock solutions that do that. custom solutions and/or turbos will cost you, but they'll do the job. and if power is what you want, why stop at 200hp?

ok, maybe i was confusing it with some of the b16's...

zc!

that's a lot of work - they probably just threw in the d15 - as is indicated by the timing belt.

if you're going to go fast, consider your ability to stop appropriately, especially if the lump is heavier. integra calipers/10.25" brake disks are bolt-on, and the 15/16" master cylinder and larger brake booster from the 90-91 civic ex has the extra volume necessary for the bigger front pistons with no brake line bending.

all. Carfax, anyone?

Thanks to Dan for running a Carfax report on my VIN - contrary to what I mentioned in my email to him, I read it a bit too quickly at first; I thought the second entry was when I'd purchased the car, but it's really the fourth one:

10/25/1990 125 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. Houston, TX Title #28972690 Title or registration issued First owner reported Loan or lien reported 06/08/1993 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. Houston, TX Title #39182726 Title or registration issued Loan or lien reported 08/19/1993 29,498 Service Plan Co. Houston, TX Service Contract Issued 10/06/1993 Texas Motor Vehicle Dept. Houston, TX Title #40482739 Title or registration issued Loan or lien reported

The fourth entry is when I purchased the car. So it certainly seems like something fishy could've happened during the time period between the second and third entries. Also interesting is that the Carfax record refers to the car as a "1990 Honda Civic 1500 CRX Si", despite listing the engine description as "1.6L L4 FI".

Dave

So, to make sure I understand this: You have owned this car for ** 15 ** years and just now you find out it doesn't have the engine you thought it had and you are all bent out of shape about it? I assume you test drove it

**15** years ago and were satisfied with the power it had before you bought it?

Edmunds.com lists the current trade-in value of a 1990 CRX Si at $704. Changing the engine would cost more than the car is worth and result in a car that is still 17 years old and isn't worth any more than $704.

buddy, come to the san francisco bay area, list a stock crx si for sale at $704 and tell me how many calls you get on it. your phone will ring off the hook for months afterwards. $704? that's a complete joke - i don't care /what/ edmunds say.

Hell, even my '82 Civic beater has a low retail of over $1K.

OTOH, how can someone have a car for that long and not be aware of what exactly is in it???

JT

I can't speak for San Francisco, but around here (Dallas area) I have found the Edmunds numbers to be a maximum you can only aspire to. You did notice that it is the trade-in value, not suggested retail? My experience has been if you drive into a dealer with a 17 year old car of any type or pedigree, the offer will be about $50.

yeah, and all the service techs take them home to sell on the private market for a good deal more. except the crx's - they keep those. the dealer near where i live always has a bunch of crx's out the back where the staff park.

And does it matter now, if it wasn't a problem all those years?

If it were me... I wouldn't even admit it!

JT