Need Alignment After Camber Adjustment?

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Joe LaVigne wrote:


absolutely. anyone getting freaked by understeer on such a vehicle is inexperienced and needs to learn how to handle it properly:
1. adjust speed before the curve, 2. power through.

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It'd be nice if I could somehow experiment with my toe/camber settings myself to find what I feel comfortable with. But yes, low torque is a significant issue in this car (139 lbft @ 6100), although i-VTEC helps to smooth out the band. The only real way of upping torque is swapping out my RBC intake runners with the TSX's RBB runners. Or add a supercharger, which I'm not willing to do.
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televascular wrote:

"low torque"???
with respect, there's a couple of things you need to check into here:
1. power vs. torque. 2. power vs. weight of the vehicle.
for the price, this vehicle is one of the fastest on the straightaways that you can buy stock. it sounds like you're shifting too early if you're not experiencing that. practice revving it up against the red line before each shift - this motor is almost impossible to over-rev so you won't hurt it. i can toast any inexperienced honda driver in my stock civic d15 if they're not using the full rev range [which is often in my experience].
regarding handling, get some big rubber before you spend a cent on anything else. do /not/ mess with the toe unless you can afford to waste tires and want to degrade handling. race hondas run within factory toe specs unless they're using modified bushings which have changed suspension compliance. regarding camber, is again set for optimum on this vehicle, given the constraints of the mcpherson struts. the only reason to adjust it is to bring it back into spec if you've lowered it - that's what camber kits are for - they don't "improve" anything, they simply allow you to adjust out the problems caused by the other mods.
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jim beam,
I fully understand the capabilities of my engine. When I refer to "low torque", I speak in terms of daily driving; the suburbs aren't the place to be past 5800rpm. Generally, I spend most of my town driving under 3k, and I would appreciate a bit more torque in that band. And at nearly 2900 lbs., this beauty ain't the lightest girl at the pageant. I blame this extra weight on additional safety equipment recently mandated by the NHTSA/DOT/whoever.
As to your comments on toe and camber settings... I agree with you that DOT-legal slicks would be the single greatest improvement for handling. However, a certain somebody at Church Automotive recommends zero toe front and back, and twice the camber in front than in rear. Conservatively, I take that to mean -1.5 front and -.75 rear, or similar. These settings were recommended specifically for the '06 Si (search Google for "TOV Project Si"), in order to deliver spirited handling. Personally, I agree with the camber specs, seeing as how the front tires lose traction first in a corner; in that sense, I feel a front camber kit is used not only for corrective measures, but to manipulate camber as the driver sees fit.
When you refer to "race Hondas", are you talking about SEMA competition or autocross? I guarantee camber and toe are NOT set to factory spec in those vehicles. Even in the SCCA, they can manipulate those settings as long as they utilize stock components. I've been trying to learn how they set up their vehicles so I can gain some direction... but of course, my setup will be a watered down version.
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televascular wrote:

so get a mustang! it sounds like you're saying that it doesn't pick up fast when you try flooring it from low revs. if that's the case, you're not using the clutch/gears enough - no honda motor will pick up much below 4k. revs, gears and clutch - don't be afraid to use them.

whatever tire you choose, you want wide, low-pro sticky rubber mounted on lightweight wheels if you want to start working on handling. be careful about how low-pro you go for road wheels - rim dents are common around my neck of the woods because surface conditions are so bad.

which is how far from factory? factory front toe on my civic is 0, +/- 2. that's a wide spec!

see above.

dude, like i said before, that car has been modified and the camber kit it to bring the tires back to a spec where they stay in touch with the ground. if you modify your suspension, you /will/ need a camber kit. if you don't, you won't!

there's a multitude of classes. go to your local track and talk to the people there if you want real deal, not internet posing. nasa is about the cheapest and easiest to get into.

go ahead and play around with this stuff since you want to experiment. but like i told you right at the start, if you're serious about handling, you'll get a car with wishbones. the dilemma any low end performance enthusiast has is how to get a car that handles and goes fast. mustangs are plenty fast, but lack handling. wishbone hondas handle, but aren't that fast, stock. it is however much easier to get a wishbone honda to go fast than it is to get a mustang to handle, which is why so many people go for the wishbone honda. with respect to your mcpherson civic, it's tough to do either. again, if i were faced with your situation, i'd sell the 06 and go for the larry widmer solution.
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jim beam wrote:

A bit impractical. Aside from the fact that I would never buy a Ford, I'm not looking to get a new car just because it has more torque. And again, I'm not talking about "flooring it", I'm talking about run-of-the-mill town driving. I also understand Honda motors inherently have all their power in the high-rev ranges, so consider my complaints rhetorical.

I considered wider wheels/tires but decided against it because of the decreased gas mileage and increased risk of hydroplaning. I also don't have hundreds of dollars to blow on nice 18 inchers, though that would be nice. I, too, have heard horror stories about dented rims... the local shops around me sell insurance policies for rims 19" and over for this reason.

Total OEM front toe is 2mm (0.08in), but makes no specification about max allowance. Front camber is 0, +/- 3' and rear camber is 1 3', +/- 3'.

Again, I'm not looking to turn my car into a performance machine. I just wanna optimize the equipment I have right now, and possibly do some low-cost modification. If I wanted a full double-wishbone car with serious power, I'd buy an S2000... Mustangs can't hold a candle to the overall package the S2000 offers. Their V8 GTs are powerful, but have nothing else going for them.
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On 9 Sep 2006 16:22:23 -0700, televascular wrote:

For "run-of-the-mill town driving" you should already be fine. You shouldn't be racing to the next red light or stop sign, anyhow. It is very dangerous.
The thing does 0-60 in under 7 seconds. That is plenty more than you should ever need around town... I find I have to concentrate to slow it down around the city. I wouldn't really care to have more power in that situation.
--
Joseph M. LaVigne
snipped-for-privacy@hits-buffalo.com
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