News Report re: Hybrid Accords

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I just heard a news report on the radio indicating that Honda Inc. indicated that they are not selling as many Hybrid Accords as they expected to sell. As a result, they will cut back on their
production of Hybrid Accords.
I believe there are two reasons:
1. Most people did not want to pay the extra costs related to buying a Hybrid Accord.
2. The Hybrid Accord does NOT look like a Hybrid car. Those people that want to impress their friends and Co-workers with a Hybrid vehicle would prefer the Toyota Prius since it looks like a Hybrid. I already know that there are other reasons that people prefer the Prius--such as the design of the car.
What's your opinion on this subject? Jason
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With regular gas having just edged above $3/gallon where I live, my opinion is that car buyers are idiots. A guy up the street has two Hummers in his driveway. TWO! And two large SUVs in his garage, as well.
Where I live, the Honda dealers *never* have any hybrids in stock. There have been waiting lists ever since before the first hybrids arrived at the dealership. You can't even test drive them -- there are NONE available.
So, if there is surplus supply somewhere, they really ought to be shipping the unsold vehicles to places where demand exceeds supply.
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"Jason" < snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news: snipped-for-privacy@66-52-22-98.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
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That's probably because the two Hummers won't fit in the garage <g>.
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The Accord Hybrid is not a real hybrid. It is a V6 with a small electric assist motor that can add 2 or 3 mpg at most. And that is probably on a good day.
Honda should have built this vehicle with the I4 motor and just made it a bigger version of the Civic Hybrid. Instead, they made an expensive hotrod (0 to 60 mph in 6 sec!).
Real hybrids have electric motors that can drive the vehicles by themselves and electric A/C, electric power steering.
Lynn
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wrote:

I agree that Honda missed the mark on the Accord Hybrid. It made for a fun car but not attractive to the mainstream Accord shopper. I think the 4 cyl outsells the V6 by 4 to 1 already. If they wanted to go the hybrid hotrod route, they should have done the RSX or Civic Si.
I don't agree that a "real hybrid" has to be able to run off electricity alone. The Civic nearly matches the Prius in mpg even though it was not purpose built as a hybrid and it uses much less expensive batteries and motor. I know a woman who owns an Accord Hybrid and claims it gets about 38 mpg on the highway.
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I agree with you. The woman is probably telling the truth. If people drive an Hybrid or almost any car in a special way--they can get much better MPG than most people get. I read an article that gave "tips" on how to get better than average MPG in a Toyota Prius. It involved keeping an eye on the speed and the special gauges in a Prius. It was my opinion that it took all of the fun out of driving. It involved lots of WORK to get really lots of MPG. I prefer driving without having to worry about those kinds of things. Driving should be FUN--not work. Jason
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My wife gets around 28 mpg crawling in stop and go traffic to work. Without the electric motor and battery you could not have autostop with ac running so it is a hybrid.

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"Gordon McGrew" wrote in message...

A week ago Sunday I did an 850-mile trip with my '02 Accord. Fuel economy worked out to 39.5 (measured by topping of the tank at fuel stops). I probably could've gotten 40mpg (as I have before), but I was driving 75mph with the AC on and had the car pretty heavily loaded.
Mpg is much worse in cold weather, something like 28mpg around town. Warm weather, I average 34mpg around town.
BTW, it is a 4-cyl. 5-spd LX coupe.
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I have had an 03 Civic Hybrid and now have an 05' Accord Hybrid. If I had to have one or the other, in today's market and gas prices, I still choose the Accord. It is my trip vehicle and the 03 Civic did not cut it. Wandered, under powered (Do NOT get the CVT Civic if you pull out onto busy 50 mph two lane roads, regularly), and uncomfortable, even with the Leather interior (aftermarket) upgrade I had on it.
Yes, I like power and my first new car was a V8 back in the day - '70s. The Accord Hybrid (as is true of ALL current Hybrids) will NOT save you money over the life of ownership, fact - read any study. The premium cost is too high to be made up by gas savings. Heaven help you should need something unique fixed. (The AC radiator/condensor is $750) So, why own it.
It is the fastest production Honda Accord with 15 hp ('05) more than the non-hybrid V6. The Hybrid gets 29 mpg in town (and I do get about that) and I get 34.5 mpg at 80 mph average highway and the rated 37 mpg if I average 60 - 65 mph. The non-hybrid 05 V6 comparably equipped, actually gets 18-22 city and 27- 32 highway.
So, I ride in luxury (the Accord starts with everything and adds hybrid), get the best mileage of any vehicle with comparable performance, can comfortably transport 5 and have LOCKOUT-ABLE trunk storage (the Prius has no secure storage when you leave it for service or leave valuables in the "trunk").
I work around and build military hybrids and chose to own one, just to say that I do. Status - which is the only reason to own one - today. That will not be the case in 5 to 10 years.
BTW: Yes, I am hunting for some lightning bolt symbol magnets to put on the side to flaunt that it is a hybrid,
Honda did just fine, by me. (except for the lack of a spare, which I have solved - after market.)
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:46:49 -0500, "mrdancer" <mrdancer_at__iw.net> wrote:

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In what way does a Prius LOOK like a hybrid???

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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:56:56 -0400, "Grahame"

Well, it's got that thing on the back that says "Hybrid Synergy Drive." That's gotta be at least 3 by 5 centimeters. You can read it from at least a couple of meters away.
Elliot Itinerant Curmudgeon
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The Honda Accord Hybrid looks like an Accord. The Honda Civic Hybrid looks like a Civic. The Toyota Prius is unique--it does not look like any other car. When almost anyone looks at a Toyota Prius--they know that it's a Toyota Prius Hybrid car. The reason the Honda Insight Hybrid was not popular is because of the poor design and the lack of power. The Prius has much more power and has a better design than the Honda Insight.
> I just heard a news report on the radio indicating that Honda Inc.

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That is certainly true of the 2004-current Prius, but the 2001-2003 Prius is hard to tell apart from the 4-door Ford Focus Sedan. Some Focus cars don't have the rear spoiler, the Prius has a battery vent on the left "C" pillar, and the logos are different. The color options have some overlap, but there are different colors available between the two. That's about it.
Mike
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It seems that hybrids are not getting the advertised mileage,because people drive differently than they anticipated,the cost of a hybrid is significantly higher than a normal auto,for a couple of reasons for low sales.
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Jim Yanik
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on waiting lists.
The problem is that no car has ever gotten the advertised mileage. The EPA has told us since the '70s, when they started the fuel economy testing, the numbers were "for comparison only" and "your mileage may vary." Some people just ignore what they don't want to hear, I reckon. At any rate, the problem of "YMMV" will probably worsen as better fuel economy becomes common. My rough estimation is that a passenger car or even light truck could reach somewhere between 100 and 200 mpg in low speed driving on level ground. I was looking for the link to a recent track competition, where I recall a stock Prius turned in over 100 mpg in very unrealistic conditions, but don't see it just now. If we weren't operating engines in such incredibly inefficient ranges we could be doing that today. But the gasoline goes to more than moving the car in real life. Cold engines and catalytic converters have to be warmed up, the passengers have to be warmed or cooled, electricity must be generated for lights, fans, and big honkin' amplifiers (sorry - I got carried away!) These parasitic factors already sap up to 20% of the EPA figures for most people. What will the public think when the EPA says 113 mpg - as Toyota is credibly rumored to have as a goal - and Joe Consumer is making dozens of half mile trips to the corner store on every tank and complaining how he was lied to?
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

Heh... As the populace is "dumbed down," one can only (rational thought processes required) that there are just too many people on the planet. Just think.. If the world's population were to be cut in half tomorrow, most of the current "crisis" issues would simply vanish..
JT
(But let me stay!)
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Maybe it depends on which half remains ;-) Since I've already admitted to being in the half that opens the "do not open" housing my fate is probably sealed. The test will be marked by three billion people simultaneously looking at a doodad and saying in a variety of languages, "Hey! What's this?"
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

Total BS. I consistently get fuel economy results with our conventional engine cars which are well within the bounds of the EPA test results. Our V-6 Accord fuel economy ranges from 24-30 mpg depending on the highway/local mix. Our Acura TSX is getting 25-32 mpg in our use. EPA test numbers on those cars are 21/30 for the Accord and 22/32 for the TSX. In my case, the correlation between EPS test and real world use is right on the money.
Something is screwy with hybrids in particular in that their real world mileage is so different from the EPA test numbers.
JOhn
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wrote:

gotta agree. I have a 97 t+C as well as my 89 civic. Its a lot easier to track milage with the van, since its got the display right there, so there goes. Its the 3.8, and the sheet in the glove box (yep, still there, pristine) shows 18/24 EPa. It was a work vehicle for 3 months, carrying crates of merchendise up and down georgia for merchendise racks. Even loadd down most of the time, it was averaging 26mpg. Around town, if I put the front and rear AC on, and drive 'spiritidly' I'll maybe get 16. I did a trip from atlanta to talahassee, and was back in georgia before having to fill up, something like 32mpg overall. The trick is how you drive. Be smooth, look ahead and anticipate, and you'll get much better figures. If you see a red light ahead, slow gently from a long way, odds are then that it'll change before you get there and you don't have to stop. WE've debated coasting endlessly, and down hills, the maths disproved the myth about it making your brakes fail. of course, conversely, if you're comming to a stop, leave it in gear, you'll use less fuel then.
There are slightly smaller things too to boost your milage, like refuel at the coldest time possible, or get a diesel (and not a nasty smokey old engine as is available in trucks, but nice modern ones such as in the VW golf/jetta or the dodge [mercedies] sprinter for commercial vehicles) I again repeat the feat of the BBC driver who got over 40mpg from a 4l twin turbo Audi A8 diesel (which also has a 6second 0-60 time if you need it)

Such as the highly specialised control systems possibly sensing the conditions of an EPA test, and reacting accordingly?

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Not at all. We get very close to the EPA numbers in town (upper 40s instead of 52) and at 65 mph (same: upper 40s) on highways with our hybrid. At 75 mph the economy drops a lot. Most people report numbers in the 40s, and fuel consumption in the 30s means either the driver is doing something wrong (like leaving the defroster on) or there is a defect.
The problem is that the EPA tests are a benchmark for operation without short trips, without gridlock and without running the heater or A/C on high. It is not possible to add those losses and keep the same numbers the EPA gets. The notion that the error is unique to hybrids is a recent one - the complaint has been with all cars since the rating system started.
Mike
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