poll - high mileage civics, what oil U burn ?

They identified a design problem with the baffles in the valve cover as being the trigger for a more complex situation involving too much heat difference between the lower levels of the lubrication system and the oil under the valve cover. IIRC a redesigned valve cover was the fix. Toyota maintained to the last that the problem was never documented in any engine that strictly followed their oil change schedule, leading to speculation that the margin of tolerance for oil changes was oo close for the V6.

Unfortunately, I didn't save the link on that.

Mike

I would like to know why one other poster here said that Pennzoil was crap. I have put Pennzoil, Castrol and Quaker State in my Accord (all 5W-30) and have had no problems with any of them.

I have changed three older (130K miles to 230K miles) cars over to synthetic in the last few years and haven't had leaks on any of them, but three cars isn't what I'd call a lot of data, either.

Mike

My motorhead brother says Havoline tends to leave carbon deposits, so I never even gave it a chance to have its way with me. (Although I have to wonder if somebody who would shoehorn a 454 into a Vega is the best guide!)

I have used Pennzoil, Valvoline and Quaker State pretty much interchangably over the last three decades. I've only been using Mobil One for a few years, but so far I'm happy.

Mike

i thought i had a leak but it turned out that i did spill more oil over the side than i though i did which explained where all the oil came from ( that is, i washed it off and it has not returned ) so i must be burning that missing oil which is about the same as yours 1/2 qt between changes

Some web site i was reading claimed that synthetics tend to run a bit thinner than dino at high temps and that might be cause of oil leaks at the seals. But i do not know how much to believe that when the weight rating of the oil 5w30 (etc) should indicate the oil thinning behavior within some margin so that choosing the proper oil weight would make that a non-issue

then ther are the claims that all the additives to the dino oil (seal conditioners , viscosity improver etc) are what keep the seals healthy in the dino oil.

thanks for feedback robb

I would too.

The best i can figure from techinical specs is that penzoil scored middle or so along with oils like Shell and chevron supreme and valvoline all climate etc

"Michael Pardee" wrote

synthetic

it

but

caused

over to synthetic

them, but three cars

I believe three "successes" out of three attempts actually does have a fair amount of statistical significance attached to it. It's even a little intuitive, IMO, that your little home study indicates it's probably safe (maybe very safe) to switch a high mileage car to synthetic.

The amateur (but fairly careful, all things considered) study to which I refer above appears at

Summary:

74 cars total

-- Most of the cars studied had less than 100k miles. These produced two leakers, one easily fixed by proper tightening of various seal bolts. The second leaker demonstrated a bizarre single leak at the "fuel pump pivot pin."

-- Clearly the cars with over 100k miles were a minority of the sample, but not an insignificant one ISTM. They produced two leakers, both 1975 Porsche 911s. Both began to leak some

20k miles after the switch.

"High Tech Misfit" wrote

Pennzoil was crap.

I'm sure you know this, but to share my own view: Part of the beauty of online fora open to the public is that they denote in total ultimate marketplace of ideas. People can and do post anything, substantiated or not. When what is posted seems off-kilter, typically enough people respond such that a reasonable person can arrive at a conclusion that is useful.

With rare exceptions, this method of transmitting 'the best information possible' is, simply, the best. Mathematical proofs even exist that argue the more diverse a group of problem solvers, the more likely the best solution will be found.

(all 5W-30) and

Over 20 years ago I knew young men who claimed Quaker State caused more sludge than most. Maybe he was right--back then. But I also think there is abundant documentation that oil formulations have changed dramatically in 20+ years. So I read reports on today's conventional oils with I hope an open mind. I'm not going to switch my car from Pennzoil to something else, but I don't reject anyone else's use of anything else.

I am not switching to synthetic because I have the time to do oil changes. My 91 Civic's oil change schedule also forces me to crawl under the car for half an hour about every six months and inspect (and clean up a bit) the exhaust system, CV boots, my oil pan, etc. I think this semi-annual or so inspection is important on an older car.

I realize that I might very well get better mileage with synthetic, and it might improve engine longevity, too.

On the third hand, seems like we get plenty of reports here of Hondas going over 300k miles on conventional oil.

If I didn't have time and had money to throw away, I'd be a lot more open to switching to synthetic.

Uh, if you can't or couldn't tell the difference between Castrol and the other two brands, it is beyond my capacity to help or educate you.

However, I do expect that Quaker State/Pennzoil may have cleaned up their act after a lot of bad publicity a few years ago...

JT

My 98 DX Hatch has 280,000KM, original PCV valve (everything else under the hood is still original...except timing belt, spark plug and air filter). The car's been a regular beater since new and usually kisses the Redline when in first or 2nd gear.

For the past 3 years, I've extended the oil change interval from every 5000km to every 15,000km. The car looses about a quart every

3000km (less when not driven aggressively or during winter). Since the Mobel-1 gets very expensive from constantly topping up (costing $8/quart), I've since switched to Mobel-1 0w40 (instead of 5w30), in the hopes that the heavier oil will reduce oil loss. It seems to work. In my last oil change, I did about 20,000km and only needed 2 quarts for topping up (normally, it should be twice as much).

The only downfall from having a base engine that's completely broken-in for aggressive driving, is that upgraded to a more power full GSR engine is unnecessary. I guess I'll have to content with the public's assumption that I have something much more powerful under the hood.

Pars

oil gets hot, valve cover gets hotter. oil splashes on valve cover, vapors attract on valve cover, both bake and get sludgy. sludge drops down, impedes flow through pump strainer screen, etc? makes sense.

i heard some 4s were involved too. and ill bet a lot of em were just off lease :)

theres always walmart synthetic- $12 for a 5qt jug.

is that the stuff that had a red cap, now its yellow? is it labelled "energy conserving", aka: has the starburst symbol?

be a

I meant that if I had money to throw away on the (apparently only) outside possibility that there'd be a serious seal failure, then I'd probably go for it.

Otherwise, I agree the price of the synthetic oil itself is probably justified, given that it will require less frequent oil changes.

From a link on TeGGeR's FAQs:

Mike

i found Amsoil at the local Canadian Tire (canadian version of i guess walmart but we have those too).

$10 a liter though, wow.... t

Rob B wrote:

isn't tech 2000 (walmart brand) made by safety kleen? and arent they a used oil recycler? just wondering if the stuff with the walmart label is in fact reconditioned used oil??

i have no data to back that up, but dealt with safety kleen in my former employ with a company that used them to dispose of hazardous waste. (Furniture factory, our old used rags and sludge in the paint shop).

t

SoCalMike wrote:

I sure understand that. The risk/benefit on changing to synthetic really isn't compelling on an older engine.

Mike

from what i understand of synthetic oil production that would be probably be a cheap way to get the base oil used to mfg the synthetic, i presume they send it back through a refinement process to gather the base oil used for various grades and since it is engineered oil then the oil produced is probably not suspect ( ? )

robb