Re: 2008 minivans: Honda Odyssey vs Toyota Sienna

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Dan C wrote:


nope. the engine is turning because it's in gear and the weight of the vehicle is pushing it down hill. in this situation, the computer will inject zero fuel. not one drop. [unless you put your foot on the gas again of course.]
go to megasquirt.info, dig through until you find the source code, read it, and there you will see an example of the shut-off, and the parameters the computer uses to do it.
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Your take on that is completely wrong. In this case, the engine is being driven by the transmission. No combustion is taking place. The engine runs on the energy of the downhill glide until your RPM's get low enough that the fuel needs to be injected again to keep the engine running.
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:43:20 -0500, Joe wrote:

OK. Makes sense I guess.
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Dan C wrote:

Not at all. think about it - take the engine out of the car and put a handle on the crank - you can turn it with your own hand! Why is it hard to believe that thousands of lbs. of moving car can't do that? The friction of moving turning the engine without fuel is what slows you down when gearing down. It's often good practise to be in a lower gear and off the throttle when descending a steep hill - the engine resistance will slow you or keep you at a constant speed. If there were fuel being fed to the engine to "keep it running" then there would be no braking effect.
NB: I know this is the case with a manual transmission, but IIRC, there are instances where an automatic still feeds a tiny amount of fuel during "rundown".
a
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:00:57 -0700, jim beam
snip

I agree I am nit picking now but a closed throttle and high rpm (plus 750-1500 rpm I think you said) is not quite the same as torque reversal although it is certainly indicative.
This, for me, has been a very intertesting exchange and I thank you for you explanations and patience.
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Edward W. Thompson wrote:

The point is that the ecu doesn't *need* to detect "torque reversal" to know when to shut off fuel. All it needs is RPM and throttle position.
a
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Figures match my 2006 Odyssey perfectly.
wrote:

It may get that on a long trip, but for day-to-day driving...
From Consumer guide Automotive
Forget the EPA. Consumer Guide's auto editors drove 150,000 miles last year. We drove to work, to day care, to the grocery store, and on vacation. We drove through record heat, blinding snow, driving rain, and confounding road construction, keeping track of every drop of fuel we used along the way.
The EPA admits its fuel economy numbers are estimates. Our numbers are real. A typical Consumer Guide test car is evaluated by at least four editors, all of whom account for their individual fuel usage. Here are the vehicles in each class that used the least amount of fuel while in our care.
Honda Odyssey-16.4 MPG
Toyota Sienna-16.4 MPG
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2008-fuel-economy-champions.htm
Consumer Reports faired a little better with 19 MPG.
As one poster noted about the Odyssey
"my normal gas mileage is 17 mpg in the city and 24.5-25 mpg on the highway. I've gotten as low as 15 mpg in the winter here (10% ethanol fuel) and as high as 27.1 mpg on the highway (traveling by myself with just two suitcases). I keep my tires at 37 psi, which is what made my gas mileage increase by 1-2 mpg."
Another noted about his Sienna " I drive 80MPH and still get 24 MPG" which I will dismiss as total BS.
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I own one. Trip mileage of course, no kidding I really do get that kind of gas mileage. City driving is less depending on how much of a lead foot I am, but I usually try to drive like I have an egg under the gas pedal. BTW, a friend has a 08 Ody which gets even better gas milage. On a trip, it runs on 3 cylinders. I don't know how they do it. The gas mileage is average in city however. It is hard to believe for a 4000 lb plus vehicle to get that kind of economy, but it is so.
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dbu wrote:

I can see it doing that well on a trip if you're using super unleaded gasoline.
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wrote:

Over the course of a recent road trip from Houston to Colorado and New Mexico and back (almost 3,000 miles total), our 2001 Odyssey averaged nearly 24.7 mpg on mostly regular gas. Much of the highway driving was on interstates, going about 70 with the AC on; there was also some driving at slightly slower speeds on smaller highways. A fair amount of the total was going up and down mountains, and there was some city driving as well.
Not at all bad for a vehicle of this size and comfort level, under these conditions. Probably twice the mileage my dad used to get in our station wagons on similar trips back in the '70s.
Around town (mix of street and freeway driving), I typically get between 15 and 19 mpg. In a total of about 75,000 miles, I've averaged about 19.4 overall.
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:06:27 +0000, badgolferman wrote:

Horsefeathers. The grade of gasoline has NOTHING to do with how much mileage you get.
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Dan C wrote:

On interstate driving it seems to for me.
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I get slightly poorer mileage with ethanol based fuel.
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That will always be true, as Ethanol doesn't have as much energy as Petrol, but there will be no difference between Super and Regular unleaded. Use what the car needs. My Civic Si requires Premium. If your car doesn't, don't bother using it. It does nothing for you.
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Where I gas up at there is a penny difference between their reg. and their premium. I always gas up my Sienna with the premium. I can tell the difference in performance as I've tried both. Not a blow you away difference, but a difference. I expect gas mileage is somewhat better with premium also, but I've never tested it. When I gas up in the next state over that does not have state mandated ethanol based fuel I see even better performance. I'm still trying to understand where we as drivers of gas vehicles have any advantage using ethanol fuel.
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:05:08 -0500, dbu wrote:

I don't believe that. Not at a normal gas station, anyway.

I don't believe that, either. You are under the illusion that many people are, that premium is more "powerful". It isn't.

There is no difference.

As has been previously stated, that is because ethanol does not have the same energy (BTU) per gallon that gasoline does. It has less.

We don't. It's a purely political sham, and is not a good thing at all. What it's basically doing is driving up the prices of food that uses corn, which is a lot more foods than most people realize.
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I need not waste my time as I have no need to convince anyone. I know what I get for mileage, I know what I feel in performance difference and that is all that matters to me. The gas station is an independent and what I said is true.
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On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:00:07 -0500, dbu wrote:

Your mileage and performance dreams are just wishful thinking, and indicative of what a person can convince themselves of, if they want to.
As for the gas station... Everywhere else in the country, gas stations (independent or not) usually charge an average of 20 cents more for Premium than for Regular. Yet you expect people to believe that in your special place, they only charge 1 cent more. Sorry, it's just too much of a difference to be believed.
How about you provide a link to a picture of their sign out front, which shows the prices...? Can you do that?
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Your email?
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wrote:

Post a link to the picture, thanks. All can see it then. Tomes
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