Re: GM Closes 4 Suv and Truck Plants

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Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
How did you get "socialist democrat" from thinking the shareholders should be treated right?
Folks, above, I would like you observe what it is like to be brainwashed by one of the various political sides. Anytime a company gets questioned about ethics, there is always an extreme conservative who thinks it is socialist to suggest a company have such.
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On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:48:17 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:


It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money. That's the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works. As for the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's certainly more than other GM employees make, but that's (also) how things work. Those in charge get paid more. Simple fact of life. Perhaps if you had more education, you could make some money, yourself!

Because your post is a textbook example of Lib-think, which is thinly disguised socialism, where you believe everyone should make the same income, and share everything amongst each other equally. That isn't how it works here in the USA, thank god. Go visit the (former) East Bloc if you'd like to see how well that system works.

Wrong. It's socialist to complain that the boss makes more than you do. Get a clue, and stay in school, boy. Someday maybe you'll be a CEO.... well, that's not too likely, but perhaps you can get out of the fast food joint.
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said:

Hey shit-for-brains... For presiding over a $39 Billion loss, he got a 64 percent raise.
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said:

and shareholders (and the BOD) allowed it.
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On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:39:50 +0000, Larry in AZ wrote:


It's a stressful job. I guess you've never been in charge of anything, so it's no wonder you don't understand, dimwit.
The "shareholders" are the real idiots here. Next to you, of course.
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I have a stressful job, too. And a Master's. I make .01 percent of that and if I were in charge of a division that lost that kind of money, I'd be out on my ass in a heartbeat. Stressful job, yeah right.
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On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:07:39 -0500, Dan C

Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream workers.
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wrote:

and whose fault is that? Do you suggest "there oughta be a law against it"?
BTW,companies are not run for the benefit of workers. They are run for making a profit for their owners.
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I agree, but the executives are workers, and GMs paying higher than the industry rate for executives.

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isn't that the decision of the company BOD(and the shareholders in a round- about way) rather than the government?
What business is it of the government? (in a Capitalist society...)
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If you read my post I did not say it was any business of the governments, and in fact I don't think it should be. However, the fact remains, that exec salaries are out of line with the competition. I know that sounds like a liberal rant, but in this case it is just the facts. The board should clean house and the stockholders should vote with their wallets.

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the BOD of many companies is like a elite club;they often serve on several companies BODs,and I think they select who can be elected to the BODs.(the choices) So,the shareholders don't really get a lot of say in the matter,and the execs get to give each other huge salaries and bonuses,without regard to actual exec performance as shown by stock price and ROI.
It's seems like a vicious circle.
But the fact remains that many people(socialists) DO think the gov't should step in and cap exec salaries.
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A law against it? Hell no. I think the tax tables need to be adjusted. And when he tries to pass on this tremendous wealth to whatever progeny might share his genetic makeup, that transfer should be heavily taxed. If the company then wants to make a major contribution (albeit indirect) to the US Treasury, they can knock themselves out.

And unions are not run for the benefit of the company.

Tell that to the GM shareholders. I bet not 0.1% of them make as much as Wagoner.
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wrote:

Ah,so everybody DOESNT get treated equally under the law. If you work smarter,earn more,you get taxed at higher rates as punishment.

DOUBLE taxation? The guy's income was taxed once,and he should be able to pass on his private property(assets) to his progeny without being taxed on the same income again.
You must be a Socialist-Communist;everything is property of the State. Or simply jealous of those who do better than you,and want government to strip them of their earnings and life's accumulations.

But it is STILL *THEIR* decision,not the US Government. Not in a non-Communist society.
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He is taxed the same as everyone else. If I make $13 million this year, I will pay the same tax he does.
If you mean the tax is progressive, you are right. It always has been.

Nope. It isn't the money being taxed, it is the transaction. If I earn a dollar, I pay tax on it. If I pay the dollar to the plumber, he gets taxed on it. If he buys groceries with it, the store pays taxes on the profits. Daddy Richbucks gets taxed when he earns a dollar. Then he passes it on to, perhaps, his no-good kid who never worked a day in his life. Now if I had to pay tax and the plumber had to pay tax and the grocer had to pay tax and even Daddy Richbucks had to pay tax, why should the no-good kid have to pay tax?

You must be an anarchist if you believe the state has no just authority to collect taxes.

If you are talking about estate taxes, I would point out that the person who had the earnings and life savings is dead. The only just thing would be to fill their yacht with the cash and the body, set it on fire, and push it out to sea.
As for being jealous, no I am not jealous. I am angry at the super rich who use their power to rape this country.

Like I said, I wouldn't dream of stopping them from pushing his salary well into the 80% bracket.
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An excellent point.

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wrote:

I usually stay away from Usenet politics, but here I must weigh in.
If you have a problem with the current state of corporate governance, I have two terms for you to look up and study: the Williams Act of 1968, and the Revenue Reconciliation Act of 1993.
There are other bad laws also to blame, but these two are the chief modern troublemakers.
The problem here is not the machinations of ordinary individuals in their ordinary course of life, but those of ordinary individuals able to exercise state power over those who lack it.
Often the cure for a political disease is far worse than the disease that prompted the cure.
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Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
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Tell me,did you once post by the name "krztalizer"?
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No, never heard of it.
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So? If the decisions of the board are bad for the company, the company goes out of business. Tough shit. Someone else will take their place, and likely be better run. The shareholders have noone but themselves to blame. And the workers will just have to find new jobs. It happens to most of us at some point...
And which lord are you talking about? Personally, I don't answer to one, so I have none to defame... Not that I care about your personal religious choices, but don't assume that everyone you are talking to shares them...
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