Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

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Lee Florack wrote:


He has been saying that kind of thing for ages. Not long ago I used carsdirect.com (a good reference for real transaction prices) to compare a Saturn minivan against a similarly equipped Toyota. The Toyota was a little cheaper.
Mikey just makes up that 20%-30% line.
Now if you are talking about used cars, then he has a point. The mucher more rapid depreciation of most GM/Ford/Chrysler branded automobiles compared to Toyotas and Honda does indeed result in a 20%-30% price premium for the late model used car buyer.
John
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John Horner wrote:

I'm sure he'll find a way to use those stats to try and convince us that the reason that the rapid depreciation, fire-sale tactics and lower used car prices are absolute proof that GM/Ford/Chrysler cars are indeed better.
I know, I know it means the exact opposite, but he'll try....
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Obviously you have not been in the market for a new car lately, right? LOL
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

Does four new vehicles since 2002 meet your criteria for recent purchases?
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I like to address a subject in general terms and not get personal but you must be like me, I have owned eight since I switched from imports to domestics in 1999, but if what you say is true then you should know what I said is true as well. Unless of course if you don't shop more than one brand. I did that with Lexus until I got smart and shopped around and found I could drive home a domestic for over 20K less. In fact when I bought my first domestic, which proved to be just as good as the Lexus' I had been buying, with the money I saved I bought a second vehicle from the same dealer
mike hunt

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Mike, You may want to check the resale value of the Lexus compared to your cars. You will find that the Lexus has a much better resale value. The reason is simple: most everyone in America knows that Lexus is far superior to cars made by American companies. If you want to convert the figures to percentages--feel free to do so. Jason
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Lee Florack wrote:

LOL. The top-poster makes an ass of himself yet again.
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On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:58:09 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Do you really believe that people here believe your lies? What illegal substance are you smoking? The only people that get screwed are people who buy Fords and GMs.
You are truly a close-minded elitist and bigot who has bone to pick with the Japanese and are too indolent to face the facts.
Apparently, as a personal penis pinata by GM and Ford executives, you spend your days in newsgroups trying to convince people deluded enough to buy the same piece of garbages that you do. As the saying goes, misery loves company.
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Sometimes it pays to spend a little more. For instance, my 1978 Toyota Hilux still runs great. It has the original motor and transmission and they haven't been rebuilt either. How many domestic vehicles that old can you say that about? If the domestic auto companies could come up with something as dependable as the 20R/22re, they'd quit making it to force people into buying more often. The Ford I-6 is an example.
Here's something else to chew on. One of my 4runners had the head gasket go out at 90,000 miles. It trashed the engine completely. They had a recall on the gaskets, but it was out warranty. What do you think GM would do in this case? I'll tell you what Toyota did, they replaced the engine for the grand total of $0.00. So now the 4runner is approaching 300,000 miles, I figure it's ok to spend a little more on Toyota.
It boils down to this: If you don't mind having to buy again a 175,000 miles and you want to keep Mexican workers employed while lining execs pocket, buy GM. And good luck with you ABS system that should have been recalled long ago. Oh, I almost forgot, don't let anyone sidewipe you in your truck either because you'll see alot more flames than this post.

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I have one, a 1971 Pinto that I bought in 1970 for around $1885. It currently has nearly 300K on the clock. Looks and runs great. The drive train is all original, except I had to replace the clutch at 210K. I wish the 75 Celica, that cost me around 5K, had held up as well. ;)
Mike Hunt
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I had a 1972 Pinto and that thing was lucky to make 75,000 miles. It was the biggest piece of s--- that was ever made.
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I think my Vega was worse-more of that "wonderful" GM engineering. No wonder is headed to bankruptcy like a rocket sled on rails!
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I guess it all depends on how well one maintains their vehicles. I had a total of three, a '75 and a '79 as well as the '71 I still own. Both of the others were driven to over 200K trouble free.
mike hunt

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On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:48:59 -0400, "Jim Higgins"

Ever drive a Chevette? <G>
I have a company issued 2001 Cavalier LS. What a total load of crap. Since we've got a fleet of them, the company mechanics are prepared for failures before they happen. What fails on one at XX miles, fails on all of them. Cutting and welding was required to change a power window motor!! <G>
I've reasonably driven every one of the 63,000 miles on the Cavalier, and I can't believe people buy 'em by choice. The car is simply minor league compared to anything that sold for a similar price from Honda or Toyota.
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Bonehenge wrote:

Your company must think highly of you! Or do the bad employees get an '82 Yugo? *LOL*
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Based on crash tests, it's obviously part of a downsizing plan...
Then again, my company and GM share many directors. They don't care if it's a GOOD car, only that their buddy sells it.
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If you are going to make up a story, why don't you just say their relatives sell them? ;)
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On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:12:12 GMT, Bonehenge

Yet that Cavaliers you drive counts as evidence to Mike Hunt that GM cars are better than Honda. 25% of GM car sales are fleet purchases.
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If you are going to make up a figure why not make it 50%? ;)
mike hunt
25% of GM car sales are fleet purchases.

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On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:19:08 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

If you are going to call me a liar, you might at least make a feeble attempt to check my facts. Even a polite request for a reference would save you the embarrassment of my (once again) proving that you are blowing smoke.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q che:rAtnUeuBs3oJ:www.autoweek.com/news.cms%3FnewsId%3D103587
Big 3 fleet sales hid October retail collapse, helped to keep domestics afloat MARY CONNELLY | Automotive News Posted Date: 11/15/05
"GM's fleet sales generated 33.5 percent of its total October volume, up from 25.8 percent for the period a year earlier. Ford Motor's fleets also accounted for 33 percent of October sales, up from 24 percent a year earlier."
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/49139.html
Honda, Toyota Sales Up; GM, Ford Sales Slide
By Dee-Ann Durbin AP 03/02/06 7:38 AM PT
"Paul Ballew, GM's executive director of market and industry analysis, said GM was pleased with its performance because it relied less heavily on incentives and fleet sales than in the past. Ballew said GM's incentive spending was down US$1,000 per vehicle from last February, while sales to corporate and government fleets fell to 25 percent of overall sales, down from 30 percent a year ago."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Auto_News/Feb_Sales_Chrysler_Japanese_Strong.S175.A10097.html
Feb. Sales: Chrysler, Japanese Strong GM and Ford slip slightly as sales stay flat. by Joseph Szczesny              (2006-03-06)
"Ford, meanwhile, was forced to use fleet sales to prop up their February sales totals. GM and Ford also disclosed plans for modest cuts in production during the second quarter. George Pipas, Ford's sales analyst, said Wednesday fleet sales accounted for more than 40 percent of the company's sales total for February, surprising analysts monitoring the company's monthly sales call."
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