Re: Where did all the old Japs car go?

Perhaps, but there are many more of the cars I mentioned in museums, as well. The cars I saw were driven to the show, for the most part, not museum
cars . ;)
mike hunt

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On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:54:48 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Well possibly, but what point is there to this anyway? You were originally claiming that this had something to do with vehicle longevity, not who had made the most museum pieces.

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It certainly is a question of longevity. If the Japs cars have always been so much better than American cars, as some would have us believe, why are there few if any Jap car left from 50 or evn 40 years ago? There are plenty of American cars around and running, even many other foreign cars sold in the US from around the world . The evidence says Jap cars are apparently not as superior as the Jap car buyer would like us to believe.
mike
wrote:

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wrote:

In girls Mike's condition would be known as "penis envy".
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Mike Hunter wrote:

because in 1950 or even 1960 Japan wasn't importing cars to the US in any appreciable numbers because they were still rebuilding their domestic infrastructure. Geez, you're a flaming dumbass sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big Japanese car fan, but to simply run them down all the time is just ignorant. Japanese cars are and have been a viable alternative to American cars (and sometimes a better one) for the last 30 years; unless the American mfgrs. really start competing, they're here to stay.
nate
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What do you mean running them down? I simply asked a question, where are the old Jap cars if they are so superior? I have been saying for a long time that every manufacture is building good stuff today, both domestic and import brands. The only real difference among them is style and price. One need not pay a premium price to get a reliable vehicle today
You perception is not correct. There were as many or more Japanese cars sold in the US in the sixties than there were cars from Europe, I owned a few myself.
I have owned many Japanese cars. Where I part company with the import buyers, who love to come into domestic NGs and say there cars are all junk, and have us believe Jap cars are superior to domestics, of the same class and price range. From what I have seen in my years in the business is that is more myth than fact.
Why else would Honda and Toyota buyers be posting in a GM NG, to say nice things? LOL
mike hunt

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On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 10:12:41 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

You have got to be joking. Did you ever hear of the VW Beetle? They had sold 5 million of those in the US by 1970. Add in sales of Fiat, Peugeot, Renault, Volvo, MG, Triumph, Saab, BMW, Mercedes and it must add up to 7+ million European cars sold in the US in the 1960s.
Datsun didn't reach 1 million total sales until 1973. Toyota might have been a little ahead of them. Honda sold virtually no cars in the US prior to 1973. I don't think any other Japanese manufacturer sold any cars in the US prior to 1970 except for Malcolm Briklin selling a bunch of $600 Subarus in 1969.
Looking at the 1960s, I would estimate that European cars outsold Japanese in the US by at least 5 to 1, maybe 10 to 1. Of course, all imports combined rarely cracked 10% of the total market in that decade.
Face it, Mike. All this talk about museum pieces is just a duck, dodge and hide maneuver to avoid talking about the fact that Toyota outsold Ford in July. Better get used to it. With Prudhoe Bay shut down, those Explorers and Expeditions are looking mighty stupid.

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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 05:08:04 GMT, Gordon McGrew

Those Explorers and Expeditions looked pretty stupid before gas prices increased.....
Death traps on wheels....
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Scott in Florida

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Face it Mike, Toyota builds a van, Sienna, that has more "American" parts than the Ford Mustang-yes I have the link. The so called domestic car companies build a *lot* of cars/trucks in Mexico and Canada and these are vehicles made by others, not our folks. The domestics also have a *large* base of former customers that did buy from American car companies and got thoroughly screwed by the products and poor customer service and they have very, very, very long memories. Those screwed former customers of the domestic car companies, me among them, would not even consider looking at a Detroit offering before exhausting every other alternative. Detroit's chickens have come home to roost and good riddance to them.
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You are entitled to your opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be. However the domestics I now buy are just as good, or better, than any import I have ever owned and I spend a lot less to drive them home when new. One sees a lot of Japanese cars and trucks in domestic used lots as well.
You are confusing North America parts with US parts, North America parts includes Canada and Mexico. My 2007 Mustang GT convertible has a parts label that says the north American parts content is 80%, the tranny is built by Ford in France. The first number of the VIN is a '1' indicating its total US content, as defined by the Department of Commerce and includes all of the things listed in the disclaimer on the NA parts label, is more that 70%.
The Sienna has a '4' as the first number of the VIN which means it US content is above 40% but less than 70%, as defined by the DOC, and therefore only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts not made in the US, regardless of the NA parts label indication. The engine and tranny in the Sienna are made in Japan. Teh Camry and Tundra have a '5' indicating a US content of less than 40% regardless of the NA content label indication
mike hunt

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Basic geography for you Mike-you must have gone to public school-is that North American is not the same as "American". "American" means the 50 US states and the assorted territories and possessions. Do try to get "American" right in the future and the Mustang has fewer American parts than Toyota Sienna so Ford's claim(s) for an American car are just as false as their chances for continued existence as an independent car company-see link below:
http://tinyurl.com/lvfda
or
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114731076341249773-HGAy7lJ09H_wFrUq6whlcBMUBXo_20060609.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top
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If the Sienna did indeed have more than 70% US content as you seem to believe, the first number of the VIN would be a '1,' as is the case with the Mustang that does have the required 70% US content, rather than the '4' that the Sienna has. A '4' indicates the US content is more than 40% but less than 70% North American parts label indicates parts from the US, Canada and Mexico, not the USA ;)
mike hunt

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Sigh, you really are unable to read and comprehend.
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On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:50:34 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Well Mike, there you go again. Let's bring it back to fact land, shall we? Here is a link to a Wall St. Journal article from May of this year:
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114731076341249773-vC7NDlPLXotsdDHpLbpm5Ewbo9E_20060610.html?mod=tff_article
"Statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that were publicized in "Auto Industry Update: 2006," a presentation by Farmington Hills, Mich., research company CSM Worldwide, show only 65% of the content of a Ford Mustang comes from the U.S. or Canada. Ford Motor Co. buys the rest of the Mustang's parts abroad. By contrast, the Sienna, sold by Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., is assembled in Indiana with 90% local components."

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I guess you missed the part of my post that said you are confusing North America parts with US total content, North America parts includes Canada and Mexico. My 2007 Mustang GT convertible has a parts label that says the North American parts content is 80%, the tranny is built by Ford in France. The first number of the VIN is a '1' indicating its total US content, as defined by the Department of Commerce and includes all of the things listed in the disclaimer on the NA parts label, is more that 70%.
The Sienna has a '4' as the first number of the VIN which means it US content is above 40% but less than 70%, as defined by the DOC, and therefore only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts not made in the US, regardless of the NA parts label indication. The engine and tranny in the Sienna are made in Japan. The Camry and Tundra have a '5' indicating a US content of less than 40% regardless of the NA content label indication
Use a little logic, the NA parts label was actually indicative of US content how could a Camry, made in Japan, show NA parts label with the body, engine and tranny made in Japan claim its has of 80% NA parts?
mike hunt

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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:05:46 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

I guess you missed the part of my post where I cited the Wall St. Journal and quoted from the article. Funny that you did manage to snip that part from your reply. I will help you out by pasting it back in and pointing out some parts of it.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114731076341249773-vC7NDlPLXotsdDHpLbpm5Ewbo9E_20060610.html?mod=tff_article
"Statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that were publicized in "Auto Industry Update: 2006," a presentation by Farmington Hills, Mich., research company CSM Worldwide, show only 65% of the content of a Ford Mustang comes from the U.S. or Canada."

Now, who should we believe? The most respected business paper in the world or Mike Hunt who has been repeatedly fact smacked in his newsgroup posts?
"Ford Motor Co. buys the rest of the Mustang's parts abroad. By contrast, the Sienna, sold by Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., is assembled in Indiana with 90% local components."

I think I am going to go with what the WSJ says. As long as it's not on their editorial page.

Sorry, your credibility is near absolute zero, I have to believe the WSJ on this one too.

Well, let's start with the facts. In 2005, Toyota produced more than 1.55 million vehicles, more than 1.3 million engines and nearly 400,000 automatic transmissions at its North American manufacturing facilities.
About 98% of all US-market Camrys are assembled in the US. Most if not all of these have US made engines and transmissions. I believe that Toyota is allowed to average the (few) Japanese-built Camrys with the (many) US-built Camrys. Under these circumstances, it is easy to see how a Japanese-built Camry culd have an 80% domestic content rating,
Here are my sources:
http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/manufacturing/
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/01/110788.html
Where are yours?

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Jim Higgins wrote:

Count me in on that. I drove America cars all of my life until four years ago (I'm 57 now). I finally started to realize just how much I was spending for service and that I didn't like my choices when it came time to buy another vehicle. Now my older son and I have Acuras, my wide, other son and daughter in-law have Hondas. We all love them and are happy to be paying much less to maintain them. Most importantly, they are better built and good designs that I WANT.
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On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 19:25:30 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Imports of Japanese cars into the US prior to 1970 were almost zero. Not that many were being sold domestically either. And it does nothing to do with longevity. Do you thing that Ming vases are more durable than Mikasa china because there are more Ming vases in museums?

I don't see many 40 or 50 year old cars from any manufacturer doing daily duty. the only ones are the collectibles brought out on fair Sundays and getting driven to the tune of a few hundred miles a year, at most. This has nothing to do with longevity.

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