reccomended maintence schedule

Just bought a 2007 Civic. Real nice car but I don't particularly care for the Maintenance Minder feature. I prefer to know what mileagae they reccomend such repairs as flushing the transmission fluid or changing
out the radiotor coolant or changing the air filter. Does anyone know what these mileage reccomendations are on a Honda?
Also, what's up with the owner's manual saying you can only use non- Honda fluids (such as tranny fluid, coolant, brake fluid) on a temporary basis. is there something special about Honda brake fluid? Isn't it illegal for a company to claim this?
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The intervals for changing these items depends on many factors. Like length of trips (did fluids get up to operating temperature) as an example. Will be different for everybody. I typically drive over 70 miles per trip. My intervals will be longer (mileage wise) between changes compared to a grocery getter that only goes 2 miles per trip and never gets up to operating temperature.
Whose interval do you want to follow? Mine or the grocery getter? Or one that actually fits your useage?

It's only an illegal claim if it isn't true. The tranny fluid for example has been proven time and again that using non-Honda fluid for any length of time causes issues and it takes 3 drain/refill/drive sequences to completely flush the system of the non-Honda fluids.
So what about the statement is illegal?
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

yes. do what it says in the owner manual. in your case, as explained by seth, use the highly expensive, sophisticated and thoroughly researched tool honda provide - the maint minder.

read the fine print - it's carefully worded and not illegal.
in the case of power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, using anything other than honda fluids will cause you huge headaches since they /are/ proprietary blends. for coolant and brake fluid, use of the correct grade alternative is ok, but using an incorrect grade will cause problems.
using honda fluids has a guaranteed outcome - satisfaction and reliability. your call.
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:20:05 -0600, rpms0605 wrote:

They do not have recommendations for much of the stuff. The Maintenance minder is the new way. It is a better way. Rather than applying an overly-simplistic rule to everyone, the car actually monitors your usage and how you drive, and makes the recommendations from there.

No, not illegal at all. The use of many aftermarket fluids has been shown, over the years, to be very detrimental to your Honda. There IS something special about Honda fluids. They are designed for your car, and your car designed for them.
The only fluids that I would ever recommend using, that are not from Honda, are oil and windshield washer...
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

They don't. They recommend it based on YOUR driving habits--which are monitored by the computer.
When the computer wasn't available to monitor things like this, all they had was mileage. Now they can do it better.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

You didn't read it very clearly, did you?
They didn't say you can't or else they won't cover any warranty claims, did they? THAT'S what's illegal.
They simply said that for proper performance, use Honda fluids. And, aside from oil, they're right.
Of course, it's your car. Go right ahead and treat your new 2007 $20,000 toy like it's a '67 Impala. No one is stopping you.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Check out http://www.high-road.com/maintenance/maintenance.htm for one shop's maintenance recommendations. By the way, stay away from transmission flushes. As noted in one of the other people noted, repeated drain and refills with a short drive in between is the way to go.

One fluid which is critical that you use only Honda's fluid is the power steering fluid. Use of other fluids will cause the seals in the steering rack to leak. I've read reports that use of non-Honda ATF will cause shifting problems. In addition, use of Honda's coolant will maximize the life of the water pump seal.
Eric
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in

Just what the Maintenance Minder says.
Of course, other than the very first oil change, there is absolutely nothing to stop you from doing MORE maintenance than what the Minder wants. The more the merrier. I like to do lots more than the manual says.

Not in the slightest, so long as they can prove that damage will occur if non-specified fluids are used.
Read the wording carefully. If they say Honda fluids SHOULD be used, it means they'd like you to use their fluids, but it's not essential. If they say Honda fluids MUST be used, well then that's gospel; the machinery is designed in such a way that damage will occur with the use of incorrect fluids.
Keep in mind that non-compliant fluids are often OK for emergency -- very short-term -- use.
It must be said that Honda mechanical components enjoy extraordinarily long lives when properly cared for. There are advantages to buying a car made by a company obsessed with engineering.
--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
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Several of these replies almost sound like they're coming from Honda dealers. I guess I am a bit suspicious of this "Maintenance Minder" device. Do you really think it has sensors located throughout the engine and transmission? Do you think it makes economic sense for Honda to install such complicated and sophisticated instrumentation on a $17, 000 car? I'm a mechanical engineer and my guess is that this system simply takes note of the mileage and temperature and averages it out to tell you to change the oil. Sort of a gimmick, if you ask me. Now, i hate to sound suspicious but when an owners manual claims you can only use Honda brand fluids and they also program their Maintenance Minder to tell you when they need changing, well, I wonder how much influence the Honda dealers had during the programming routine of this Maintenance Minder?
Realistically, if I changed my brake fluid every 30,000 miles (as recommended in the manual) and changed my oil/transmission fluid/ coolant whenever the dealer or Maintenance Minder advised me, well my Ford would last forever, too.

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

dealers, no. experienced professionals, yes.

suspicious???? suspicions based on what? have you researched this subject and found this system to be defective?

no, but it doesn't need them. all it needs is an ecu with sufficient smarts and memory to figure out whether you're doing 10k miles on a freeway or 2k miles with the engine never getting into closed loop injection mode.

the ecu has ooooodles of excess computing capacity - it's a no-brainer.

eh? i wish mine did it.

honda dealers had /zero/ influence on programming it. left to dealers, you'd only be able to use honda gasoline, honda tires and you'd need the oil changing ever other weekend.

why didn't you buy a ford and do that experiment then? i've worked on enough of them to know your speculation is unfounded.
bottom line, if don't want to pay attention to the owner manual or the experience of pros, you go ahead and do your own thing. particularly the use of standard non-honda power steering fluid - i bet i can predict the mechanical outcome and the validity of your warranty.
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:31:39 -0600, rpms0605 wrote:

None. The maintenance minder uses the computer to determine the way you drive (RPM's, speed, stop and go, etc) and works out the best time to change your oil. It will likely be far less frequently than it would have been otherwise (for most people).
For instance, on my '06 Civic Si, I have changed the oil twice. First time was at around 6,000 miles, second time around 12,000. Now, if I were following most standard oil change intervals, it would have been done every 3,000.
Not to mention that the oil is the one thing that you don't really have to worry about using Honda. I use Valvoline Durablend from an oil change place.

Not likely.
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How on earth would being a mechanical engineer elevate the value of an assumption here, and a rather gross one at that?
If you google, which at a minimum you should have, you will learn that the maintenance minder system is a lot more complicated than your totally non-engineering guess.

How can you call this realistic without identifying whether there are major differences in each design's (Honda's and Ford's) engineering?
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

It doesn't have to.
The Honda engineers know the effects of a wide variety of driving conditions on their components, and take those driving conditions into account as they calculate the maintenance intervals.
Lots of cold starts with short trips and high RPMs while cold signifies one style of driving which would indicate short maintenance intervals, while lots of long highway drives in moderate conditions with very few stops and starts would indicate a completely different maintenance interval.
You're suspicious because you haven't read up on the technology.

The algorithms, once decided upon, are applicable to ALL their cars with very little tweaking. So the expense for any individual car is minimal.
And in the highly competitive auto market, this kind of thing is necessary.
Let me put to you a similar question: do you think it makes economic sense for Honda to put every occupant safety device and mechanism they can into even their cheapest Civic DX? Because that's what they're doing. A few years ago they announced with quite a bit of fanfare that they have stopped the practice of giving out more safety features only to higher priced cars and leaving lower priced cars with fewer safety features. As they engineer a model, they are putting into it every safety feature that's available at the time, whether it's a $17,000 Civic or a $60,000 RL.
Welcome to the world of competitive auto sales.
You so, SO badly don't want this maintenance minder to be real, you'll grab onto anything. You SO want your own knowledge to be superior to that of the engineers who built the car. Why?

So? Are you an engineer with Honda? Did you engineer anything for Honda? Do you have any factual evidence that the programming for Honda's maintenance minder algorithms is in direct contradiction with the requirements of the Honda engineers who engineered the mechanical system in question?

Hmmmmm. I wonder how many mechanical engineers "guess" at something like this and then STOP without delving into it any further.
Please let me know about any bridges or anything else you've had a hand in. I want to know what to avoid.

Actually, cars are sold nowadays based on how LITTLE maintenance they need. Maintenance intervals are a HUGE marketing item, with "100,000 mile tuneups!" getting big headlines in the ads.
The MM isn't programmed based on what the dealers want; it's programmed, if anything, based on its ability to keep people OUT of the dealership.
Please note that if you blindly take your car into the dealership and tell them, "My maintenance minder says Service A," the dealership will have his own, non-Honda list of "Service A" items--which is unrelated to the owner's manual, but which IS related to the dealership's pocket. They make money off of people NOT reading the owner's manual.
Let me repeat this: dealership service departments make money from people NOT reading the owner's manual.
And if you spend any time around here at all, you'll see HUGE numbers of people asking questions that are answered DIRECTLY by the owner's manual. In other words, there are plenty of non-readers for the dealership to profit from.
But the smart owner sees "Service A" on the minder, looks it up, and asks for those services to be performed--whether at a dealer or at an independent shop.
Or he performs them himself.
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"Realistically, if I changed my brake fluid every 30,000 miles (as recommended in the manual) and changed my oil/transmission fluid/ coolant whenever the dealer or Maintenance Minder advised me, well my Ford would last forever, too."
Is that a bad thing? Isn't the basis of any car performance, safety, and RELIABILITY?
What a lot of Honda dealers in my area are doing now is making all maintence-minder requested service free for cars bought at their dealership. I got my 2007 Ody at Schaefer and Strohminger Honda in Fallston, MD, and I won't have to pay for any service the maintence minder requests until I reach 120,000 miles -- that's at least a good eight years for me.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in

Not mine. I just happen to own a Honda. And I happen to trust Honda's judgement better than my own, for the most part.

High-end cars like Mercedes actually do now have sensors that sample oil quality and recommend replacement based on an actual analysis.
Honda and most other makers do it by calculation. The calculations are arrived at by considering driving habits and ambient temperatures. The algorithms used are fairly sophisticated.
Your objection sounds like the ones expressed by steel-furnace men a hundred years ago, when pyrometers were being introduced to help better control furnace temperatures. The furnace men were insulted, figuring they were being told they didn't know what they were doing. Of course, it turned out the pyrometers were far more accurate than human eyes, which is why all furnaces mow have pyrometers.

None at all. Honda assumes the dealers are following factory procedure, which may or may not actually be the case. Honda and its dealers have a love-hate relationship.
Mercedes got into trouble a few years ago for just this. The oil monitoring system of the time was expecting factory-specific synthetic oil, but the dealers were installing regular oil. The result was heavy sludging and a class-action lawsuit.
Honda dealers are independent companies that have purchased a Honda franchise from Honda. They are under no obligation to use Honda repair parts, use Honda tools or follow Honda procedures. This is one reason you'll find wide variance in dealer quality.
--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
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