Shell's new "nitrogen" gasolin

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Shell is promoting its new nitrogenized gasoline as an engine cleaning formula. Anybody knows if this is for real and how nitrogen could accomplish that? I've been favoring Chevron for its techron content for
the same reason. pj
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wrote:

I can't speak for the nitrogenized gasoline, but I started using Shell several years ago, based on their cleaning claims. I discovered that whatever it was, Shell gas was cheaper to run than other fuels.
I started with a few tanks of their Ultra, with extra cleaners, to get things clean (this was a 94 Lexus with 130K miles on it). Then I switched to their 87 octane, and ran nothing but that. I was getting better mileage than I did on other fuels, and even accounting for the fact that the Shell was a bit more expensive to buy, it was cheaper to run.
go figure. I think their claims are legit--but they were so even before claiming this "nitrogenized" fuel.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

i started keeping fuel logs a few years ago, and indeed, averages for shell are better than chevron, the other one i've run extensively.
but i have no idea about this nitrogen thing though. some interesting blog comments here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?idB85994&postidU935549
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Hm, interesting. And I thought Chevron was the way to go.

I hope it's not a kind of gimmick like those claims about magnets around fuel lines. ;-) I noticed though that Shell also uses up to 10% ethanol in its gas which is said to reduce fuel efficiency, so it's even more puzzling how they can achieve better overall milage than other main brands. pj
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P J wrote:

the key to understanding is knowing the difference between "up to 10%" and "is 10%".

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Point taken. I better check the posted label more closely next time at gas stations. Perhaps Arco's label does say 10%. I'm actually surprised that government allows such vague labeling as "up to 10%." What might be next? This gasoline's octane rating may be up to 89? pj
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They allow it because the amount of additives changes according to the season.
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wrote:

We don't have Chevron around here, so I have no way of knowing.
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wrote:

Pretty much all gas in the Houston area seems to be 10% ethanol.
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P J wrote:

I can't see how any sort of dissolved free nitrogen would do squat for cleaning. I'd think that the air would provide plenty... ;)
Shell's site is full of typical idiot-level Dancing Bologna and says nothing of consequence.
Amines have long been used in the better anti-deposit additives. Although a very complex family of compounds, all amines use a nitrogen atom as a foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amines This is hardly bleeding edge tech...
I suspect nothing is new, except for the dumb ad campaign. (OK, maybe they increased the amount of 'stuff' in their mix by 2%...)
-Humbug!
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wrote:

We discussed this extensively on an RV newsgroup and came to pretty much the same conclusions. Nitrogen gas is going to do nothing and the Shell website about there new gasoline is almost completely free of content.
Several knowledgeable posters suggested it was probably just an additive -- probably a nitrogen compound such as nitrotoluene or nitrobenzene. These can act as powerful solvents and also would tend to raise the octane number.
Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher
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On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:38:23 -0500, Elliot Richmond

Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form? The facts are you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, Shell does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their claim but that does not make their claim invalid. Until you have some facts to share, why not keep quiet?
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Edward W. Thompson wrote:

usenet has no barriers to entry dude. anybody can just show up and evidence their ignorance, non-analytical thinking and herd-like fear of their unknown.
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On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:34:57 -0700, jim beam wrote:

Very true. Just look at nearly any of the posts made by 'jim beam' to confirm this.
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Well, for what it's worth, I seem to remember him too, from another Honda group where he attacked with gusto anybody who did not pay immediate homage to his sage advice. So be prepared for same. pj
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On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:37:10 -0700, P J wrote:

I guess you haven't been paying attention. He's already tried that, and made himself look (even more) the fool for his efforts.
He's a clueless stooge who is best ignored.
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On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:21:35 +0000, Edward W. Thompson

When one says "nitrogen." that's what one means. Nitrogen is an element. In gaseous form and standard temperature and pressure, it is a molecule formed of two nitrogen atoms joined by a double covalent bond. In this form it is relatively unreactive. The atmosphere is about 78% nitrogen.

I have some idea of what I am talking about.

They did not say nitrogen based additive, they said "nitrogen enriched."
Here is a tinyurl link to their page supposed "explaining" this new gasoline.
http://tinyurl.com/6p5gn7
I could not find any use of the words "nitrogen based additive" or "nitrogen compound" or "nitrogenated hydrocarbon."

My guess was clearly speculation. Having facts and keeping quiet have never been standard operating procedure for Usenet. It certainly has not hindered anybody posting to this group in the several years I have been reading it, and occasionally contributing.
However, I stand by my guess of nitrobenzene or something similar. Nitrobenzene is an effective solvent, it is relatively inexpensive, it mixes with water and gasoline, it would raise the octane number, and is not known to be carcinogenic.
Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher
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wrote:

"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines. The increased stability ensures that the molecule can work under much tougher engine conditions by resisting thermal breakdown better than conventional cleaning additives."
To me, this says the additive they're talking about CONTAINS nitrogen, not that it IS nitrogen.
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Paul wrote: <snip for clarity>

he's an astronomy teacher, not a chemistry teacher.
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On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:53:16 -0500, Elliot Richmond

Do you seriously think that Shell lintend to mislead by claiming they have some 'magical formula' to fix gaseous nitrogen in gasolene? Incidentally the information on nitrogen was not necessary :-) but thanks anyway.

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