The newest Honda transmission recall

So the current 4 cylinder Hondas now join the 6 cylinder models, the ones built between 1997 and mid-2004, as having transmission that are as weak and unreliable as a baby gerbil.
What caught my eye was this: that rather than fix the mechanical problem of the bad/weak bearing (THAT would cost REAL MONEY!), American Honda will instead--get this--alter the software that controls the transmission.
This caught my eye because when I had to REPLACE the tranny in my 02 Odyssey, the only way Honda would do it was if they ALSO replaced the ECU. Apparently, the older ECUs couldn't be reprogrammed, and Honda "fixed" some of the code on those 5 speed trannies to try to prevent? delay? the onset of the inevitable problems. Apparently, what I got in my replacement $4500 tranny was the same design with the same design faults, with altered control code to make it behave a little differently to try to avoid the conditions that precipitated the failure.
Apparently, 73K miles over 9 years of my wife driving little kids around town is just too much for the Honda transmission, and maybe having the computer control it differently will help it along.
Whatever.
Anyway, the changing of the code in the current recall caught my eye ALSO because last year, Honda hybrid owners discovered that their traction battery packs were going bad VERY quickly. Of course, this is an emissions part--so Honda is obligated to replace those that fail over a period of time that's much longer than their standard 36 month warranty.
And that costs REAL MONEY.
So what does Honda do? They RECALL their hybrids, every SINGLE ONE of them, to do--what? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? That's right, CHANGE THE ENGINE CONTROL CODE. And what would that POSSIBLY do to a hybrid?
Yep. It puts less of a load on the battery, so that it WON'T FAIL DURING THE EMISSIONS WARRANTY PERIOD. And if it DOESN'T FAIL, then Honda WON'T INCUR THE EXPENSE OF REPLACING IT.
Great idea, right? Absolutely--if you're Honda. Stop and think now, what does that battery mean to a hybrid drivetrain? That's right, MOTIVE POWER. And suddenly Honda is programming your system not to use the battery so much, to try to limp it along? But...but...I still need motive power, don't I?
Yes, you do. And do you know where that motive power, that USED to be provided by the battery/motor system, will now come from?
Yep. YOUR GAS TANK. Which YOU pay to fill.
Suddenly, Civic Hybrid owners weren't seeing the 40-42mpg that they used to have. Suddenly, right after the car came back from the dealer, they're seeing....32mpg. Really? They could have bought a Civic LX and gotten THAT mileage. But they paid a few thousand more for the Hybrid--but now they're not getting any benefit from the hybrid drive system.
All because Honda has decided that, instead of fixing the underlying problem, they'd rather band-aid the issue and pass the problem along to the owner's wallet. On an ongoing basis, no less. (At least my transmission fix, while expensive, wasn't a monthly fee!)
This puts the current transmission recall into perspective. If Honda can address something purely inside code, with no parts replacement, they will--even if it means putting a burden onto the owner. As long as the burden stays AWAY from Honda, that's all that matters.
Honda price, Chrysler experience.
And now the owners of the cars under recall will have transmissions that behave markedly differently, and which can't rock them out of the snow when necessary. Because that might expose Honda's shitty design and manufacturing practices, and cost Honda money.
Fuck Honda. They can eat shit and die.
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:02:47 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
Local Honda dealer banned you with a restraining order, eh?
If anyone wants to see what a piece of work this shagnasty guy is, look at the shit he says, then immediately denies saying in the ' 2012 Civic "Panned" ' thread over the last few days.
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He had some kind of really bad experience with American Honda and/or his dealership, and can't let go of it.
My experiences with people with Honda tranny problems have been quite the opposite of Elmo's. The people I've been in contact with have universally been well cared for by American Honda; American Honda has been very accommodating and generous to them, and they've come away mostly pleased with the outcome.
--
Tegger

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Not my dealership.
The fact that my Honda van cost $4500 more than it should have, because of Honda's total mismanagement of the product and the customer--made all the WORSE by the fact that Honda has proven in the past that they know HOW to do it damn near perfectly.
"We haven't gotten it quite down yet" is way different from "yeah, we figured we don't have to do it well anymore". I'll give Hyundai (for example) the benefit of the doubt, while I blame Honda for making the conscious choice to do it WRONG.
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On 08/05/2011 06:46 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

that number is similar to the repair costs my friends have all experienced.

indeed. you don't have multiple different transmissions across multiple vehicle models all develop reliability faults, deliberately keep replacement parts and transmission cores off the market, and consistently shaft customers with similar costs across the board without it being deliberate and rigidly enforced corporate policy decision.

ever since honda hired some ex-gm seniors, they've been going down the toilet. exiting what used to be honda's core anchor base, the tuner market, adopting macpherson suspension, producing detroit-style life limited transmissions, and amazingly, producing the ultimate detroit canyonero-style albatross, the ridgeline - all are evidence of not only copy-catting the worse practices detroit has to offer, but are the abandonment of all that honda used to stand for.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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And that was in fact the case before the economy melted down. I know of a man who brought his 2001 van in to the shop with tranny problems; it was his first time in to the dealer, ANY dealer (no record in Honda's system at all), and he had a bunch of miles on the van, and he had a trailer hitch on it--and admitted to everyone that he used the van to pull a trailer through the mountains.
And American Honda accommodated that, 100%.
Fast forward to a couple years AFTER the economy crashes, in addition to the perceived Hyundai threat, and American Honda has pulled ALL the way back on its goodwill accommodation--to the point where a guy with a 25 year history of buying Hondas AND of having them serviced AT the freakin' dealership, is denied accommodation on the tranny of (a) an 02 Odyssey, which (b) is known for problems, and yet (c) the van has only 73K miles on it over (d) 9 freakin' years.
Two years ago, I would have been right there with you, tellling the world that Honda takes care of its customers and is probably the ONLY car company that does.
The economy crashed and Hyundai came up in the world, and American Honda ran scared--right into business decisions that were even WORSE than the decisions they made when they designed and built those bad transmissions to begin with.
And now MORE bad transmissions??? AFTER they screwed over their hybrid owners?
American Honda is a train wreck.
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On 08/05/2011 06:30 PM, Tegger wrote:

i know three honda owners - accord, civic and acura tl - who have all had the honda repair middle finger and multi-thousand dollar bills from premature transmission failures. they all got smoke blown up their skirts about how these repairs were "discounted" and would have "cost much more if we weren't trying to help you out".
as for the "positive feedback" you're getting, unless you know these people personally, you're in the position of being deliberately targeted and "astroturfed" in an effort to sway public opinion. [i know for fact this tactic is used because i have advised two multinationals on how to go about this kind of thing]. "campaigns of influence" can be very sophisticated, persistent, and subtle. and successful.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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Harvey wrote:

Except that Shag is right. There is well documented evidence regarding the battery issue with the Insight.
Regarding later electronic automatics... Well they rank right up there with the Ford Taurus' that seldom got 100K before needing a complete rebuild.
Honda is a shell of what used to be a great company.
JT
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wrote:

I had a 2002 Odyssey that had its transmission replaced at around 78,000 miles in 2006, I think. Fully covered by Honda's warranty extension and didn't cost me a penny. Wasn't your covered? The new transmission worked dramatically better than the old one, until some idiot rear-ended another car that rear-ended the van and totalled it.
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By August 2009, Honda had pulled back ALL the way on its goodwill program. And this tidbit I got from a couple sources INSIDE Honda.
I had to start the conversation with the dealership service manager, as he didn't offer it up front; Honda's first offer back was 25%. I took it to the general manager, who got Honda to up it to 50% accommodation.
I took it and ran, and swore that American Honda would not get any more of my money--and that I would do everything I could to keep them from getting anyone's money. I will tell my story, from superb experience in the very early 80s through Honda's "fuck off, it's your problem not ours" Chrysleresque response in 2009, forever.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

...and tomorrow, you can REALLY tell how you fee!
<G>
JT
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wrote:

That sucks. I have a 2007 Ody at the moment. I am hoping for better luck.
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