Time for gasolin summer mix yet?

On this side of the pond we only get one standard of fuel year round. However, we have our priorities right, most decent breweries do summer and winter ales. Down at the pub a pint goes down very nicely.

Thus spake "Cameo" :

Gonna be kind of stuck with it. The Feds want it in the tank. So it's in the tank. Just be glad the corn farmers don't get their way and go to 20%.

I live in California and the other incentive, for the state, to want more ethanol, is that we pay taxes on the gallon, and ethanol reduces gas mileage, so one has to buy more gas, for the reduced mileage and pay more taxes on "watered-down" fuel. The more ethanol they can get into the fuel means more tax dollars to them.

with ethanol, fuel gets watered down for real too - ethanol allows real water absorption. it's not a lot per gallon, but you multiply the volume by the number of gallons of fuel used per day/month/year across the state and you're talking significant dough. enough to pay a few political contributions and some bonuses.

And the more grain is used for ethanol production the less is available for food, driving up food prices. Let's say thanks for that to our well-meaning politicians.

"Cameo" wrote in news:io3km9$rqr$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

I read in the paper that some 40% of corn production is being diverted for use as fuel. Absolutely insane.

Time to make ready the pitchforks and torches...

JT

GrumpyOne wrote in news:io43a5$s0o$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

And amend the Consitution to prevent federal and state govenments from ever again trying to control such things.

That may raise manufacturer warranty issues as well. Owners manuals state how much ethanol can be used in fuel; often it's about 10% or so. When Oregon mandated all-year 10% ethanol, IIRC that was a consideration in the discussions. (BTW, now they're seriously considering increasing registration fees for electric vehicles because they do not pay as much gas tax money - I am not making this up.) Unless it's a FlexFuel/E85 vehicle, I would be concerned. I don't know if there are any OTC additives like fuel stabilizer that can counteract ethanol.

correction:

"wall st and their commodities casinos that own federal and state government"

if anyone wants to take their farm implements on a little vacation, that's where they'd need to go. 100% ownership and control.

On the plus side ethanol in the fuel stops condensed water collecting in the fuel tank.

Yes ethanol mixed in the fuel will reduce the mileage some, but the effect is not that big. About 2%

Since something needs to be added as an octane enhancer, the other common alternative is MTBE, which has about the same effect on mileage as ethanol, and MTBE has worse environmental problems than MTBE.

The effect of ethanol in the gas mix, is far less than environmental factors temperature, rain or snow on the road, and is far less than the effect of driving style.

so i'm enjoying a 2% price reduction for my gasoline, right? oh, wait, through my elected "representatives", i'm giving tax subsidy to farmers, i'm giving tax subsidy to ethanol producers, giving tax write-offs the oil companies, and through my reduced mpg's, /increasing/ my state gasoline tax revenue.

and 2% is "not that big"? we consume >175 billion of gallons of gasoline a year. 2% of that at $3.80 a gallon is $13 billion a year, excluding all the tax bullshit. to put that in perspective, nasa gets $9 billion a year and the national science foundation gets under $7 billion. a spectacular misallocation of funds with spectacular long term negative impact.

Is this nonsense going on in Canada, too?

Ain't gonna happen IF you follow the money...

JT

I think that 20% would be more accurate in real life situations. That "2%" is a figure having about the same accuracy as the old EPA mileage estimates...

JT

so, the $3.89/gallon gas is really $3.97/gallon equivalent when you end up doing the math.

"not that big", eh?

"2%" is the rough [rounded down] difference based on calorie content for traditional gasoline and that same gasoline with pure ethanol in it.

but that presumption is huge. in reality, there is water content, because ethanol allows miscibility, and ethanol also allows lower grade hydrocarbon fractions to be used because of ethanol's knock suppression. so, while i doubt it's 20%, it does indeed seem to be somewhat more than 2%.

No not big. Weather effects run much larger (25%). It is commonly reported that driving habits are big, and many people (not all) could get 10-30% improvement with a combination of proper maintenance and change of driving habits.

Also you miss the point, something is needed to give the octane rating need by car engines. Traditionally lead was used, but that had serious drawbacks and was withdrawn for good reason.

The alternatives seem to be: MTBE or ethanol, both of which will cost cost 2% or so in mileage. MMT which may or may not have environmental/health problems, but does gum up catalytic converters, and engine control systems (eventually resulting in worse mileage).

Canada imports a good bit the ethanol they use from the USA.

It is not as if the corn was being used for anything useful prior to ethanol. The chief use of this corn if it wasn't turned into ethanol would be to produce vast quantities of animal fat and sugar which has led to the epidemic of heart disease and diabetes in the US. The choice is to turn it into crap food or turn it into fuel. And if it isn't used to pollute the US food supply it is shipped overseas to prop up dictators like Mubarek of Egypt. The reason farmers in Egypt can't feed their country is because they were bankrupted by US grain exports over the last 30m years and when the Nile delta farmers lost their land it was bought up by the wealthy and turned into golf courses and large estates.