TOTAL Oil Loss....Have I Ruined My Engine?

1. is there a chance that one old rubber gasket was still stuck to the engine, and then you installed an oil filter with it's rubber gasket on top? Common problem in the trade.
2. NEVER tighten a oil filter with a filter wrench! It shouldn't even be necessary to do any more than what is printed on filters, hand tighten 1/4 turn past where it stops screwing on freely.
3. the pipe nipple, a hollow threaded pipe that holds on a filter, often has a retainer nut to lock it against the screw threads in the engine block. Is that properly tight? If loose, the filter can lock against the locknut, but, the pipe nipple that holds the filter on, could actually be loose and the filter would leak.

Check out all the above, make it right, and then put new oil in the engine. See if you have simply had a very close call! Best of luck!

Do let us know!

the chances of total engine failure in that time frame is very slight. what happened was that the old filter seal was stuck to the block, then you put another on top of it with the new filter. the old one blew out under the pressure.

simply refit a new filter - NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE FRAM - and refill with oil.

seriously, don't use fram filters - not only are they terrible for the problem you just experienced, they're not very good at filtering either. if you want to go cheap, buy walmart st3593a filters. otherwise, buy honda or denso filters online.

next time, learn to ALWAYS check for old gaskets stuck to the block.

As for the engine's future, the noise is the part that worries me. A minute of idling without oil pressure is not a good thing but not normally a catastrophe.

There are two main areas that you need to be concerned about: cam bearings and crank bearings. Dunno about Hondas for sure, but the cam bearings I've seen were just polished steel. I'm thinking that is where the noise came from. They may survive, but I haven't had any experience with cam bearings and oil starvation.

The second area, the crank bearings, are the part I've had experience with :-( Crank bearings are normally indium plated, producing a pink surface that is vital to proper operation. If the indium is stripped away by oil loss the crank journal and the exposed base metal of the bearing will chew at each other. Within a day of normal use you will be able to hear a soft brushing sound; within a week it will become a rhythmic tap. In theory, I suppose you could drop the pan and examine the accessible halves of the crank bearings. It will be obvious whether the indium was ruined or not, and the accessible halves of the journal bearings are the ones that receive the pressure. On the rod ends, the upper halves receive the pressure but at least those are accessible without removing the crank. The problem is: what will you do if you find damage? You could replace the rod bearings and the lower halves of the journal bearings, then hope for the best with the upper halves of the journal bearings. It's a devil's choice.

Here's the thing: either there is damage or there is not. If there is damage it will become apparent within a week - a month at the very outside - by the sound. Trying to head off progressive damage to the crank bearings isn't the same as fixing everything if they are damaged. Or... you dodged the bullet and there is no bottom end damage. Cam damage is no fun, but can be repaired for a semi-affordable amount without pulling the engine.

Best wishes.

Another thought comes to mind - it took some time for the oil pump to pump all that oil out at idle. If there was any back-pressure where it was leaking out, there was probably some oil making it to the bearings for part of that time. That supports the choice to wait and see.

Mike

probably spraying oil onto the belts that was making the noise. good idea to replace them.

Yea, that was my 'best case' choice.

Did the screeching continue after you added oil?

Did it continue for a few seconds after restart, then stop? That might be a bad thing, implying that oil starved surfaces suddenly recieved lubrication as the oil system represurized.

-Greg

theoretically yes, but i've seen motors run dry, and they rarely squeal

- they just seize up. or they clatter if the bearings melt. squealing is usually belts or clutch bearings.

about the fram oil filter. they are good oil filters. probably the best for the money they cost. you were probably turning the filter the wrong way with your wrench and over tightened it. look for the old oil filter gasket still stuck on the engine. i've never had that happen with a fram oil filter where it would leave the old gasket on the engine but if it was over tightened that much it's possible it got stuck on there. avoid cheapy purolator filters because their gaskets do pop right off and will cause that problem for you again. i highly doubt you did damage to your engine i just wouldn't let it happen again. i do use an filter wrench to tighten my oil filters on but not super tight just snugged up good. let us know what you find is causing the leak.

But...but...you're only supposed to go hand tight then 1/4 turn.

And, it's been a while since I changed a filter on a Honda, but on my Toyotas they seem to tighten as they go along.

I'm sure there's a torque spec somewhere...

Hmmm...i've used Fram filters for a while.

Of course, with Toyotas I use Toyota filters, since they were rated the best filter by Consumer Reports (um...20 years ago!). Since I usually have two or three cars that use the same filter, I buy them by the case!

Also, do you know who makes the Wal*Mart filters? I would think they would be Fram or Purolater.

Another good filter (according to what I have read about filters, at any rate) is Wix. They have two grades: Professional and Economy. Get the Wix filter in the white and yellow box from CarQuest.

You'd be surprised how long a car will run with no oil. I speak from experience.

That's good to hear....I sure hope it's applicable in this case. Paul.

That's been my experience. Unless they have hydraulic lifters (which clatter like crazy without oil) there is usually little warning :-( A sister-in-law asked me to look at her Buick, which died when she came to a red light. She asked if it could be related to the banging noise she had heard, and I felt cold. Sure enough, a socket on the crankshaft felt like I had hooked up to a solid piece of metal. Seems the oil warning light had burnt out and she never checked the oil or had it changed.

Mike

Mike

Oh really? What information do you base this on? The construction quality of Fram filters compared to others is hardly inspiring of confidence.

Champion Laboratories. Champ also makes many AC-Delco branded filters and the STP brand sold at AutoZone. Champ used to make filters for Bosch USA, but that stopped when Bosch bought Purolator.

...and still, "they" ask what the difference is between wimin 'n men...

JT

Yep, Fram which at one time manufactured a quality product back in the old days in East Providence, RI has long relegated quality for a quick buck by selling virtual junk.

No Frams on any of my "babies," even though I'm a RI native!

JT

I prefer the K&N filters. They have a 1" nut welded on them for easy removal.

k&n don't filter much though - very high particle throughput. i wouldn't compromise engine life for the sake of saving a buck on a proper filter wrench.