TOTAL Oil Loss....Have I Ruined My Engine?

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Hi - I had a very serious event happen tonight during an attempted oil change with my 2004 Honda Accord (LX, 4dr., 2.4 litre). In fact, I am wondering if I've ruined my car. I am sitting here writing this with
4.2 litres of 5W-20 synthetic all over my garage floor at the moment, all of which came gushing out from around a new Bosch oil filter after I changed the engine oil and started up the car. But this is only the second time I have changed my oil at home (first time on this particular vehicle), and I forgot to look under the car for leaks after starting the engine. I began hearing this horrendous screaching noise within a minute (yep....like metal grating against metal), but it was a full 10-15 seconds before I was able to turn off the car. That's when I found the 4.2 litres of oil all over the floor. I took off the Bosch filter and put a new identical one on, then re-filled with new oil. This time I actually tried to tighten it with an oil filter wrench, and I got it very tight but it still had a leak (a slow leak this time) when I started up the car. The filter which had been on there from the last oil change at the shop was a Fram CPH3593A, and it was real, REAL tight. I tried and tried and tried to get it off with the oil filter wrench, and finally had to use a lubricant ("liquid wrench") and so much force that I actually crushed the canister. I mention this as a possible reason for the leak if I stripped the threads. FIRST QUESTION: Have I ruined my engine??? The car sounded OK once I re-filled with new oil and started it up, though of course I had to turn it right back off with that leak. But it did run with no oil at all for about 15 seconds. Also, is a Bosch 3315 the correct oil filter for my car? And finally, is it possibe I stripped or warped the threads when taking off the Fram filter which was on there with 3 million foot pounds of torque? ANY ideas or suggestions would be very greatly appreciated. - Paul S.
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Paul S wrote:

1. is there a chance that one old rubber gasket was still stuck to the engine, and then you installed an oil filter with it's rubber gasket on top? Common problem in the trade.
2. NEVER tighten a oil filter with a filter wrench! It shouldn't even be necessary to do any more than what is printed on filters, hand tighten 1/4 turn past where it stops screwing on freely.
3. the pipe nipple, a hollow threaded pipe that holds on a filter, often has a retainer nut to lock it against the screw threads in the engine block. Is that properly tight? If loose, the filter can lock against the locknut, but, the pipe nipple that holds the filter on, could actually be loose and the filter would leak.
Check out all the above, make it right, and then put new oil in the engine. See if you have simply had a very close call! Best of luck!
Do let us know!
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Paul S wrote:

<snip waffly story>
the chances of total engine failure in that time frame is very slight. what happened was that the old filter seal was stuck to the block, then you put another on top of it with the new filter. the old one blew out under the pressure.
simply refit a new filter - NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE FRAM - and refill with oil.
seriously, don't use fram filters - not only are they terrible for the problem you just experienced, they're not very good at filtering either. if you want to go cheap, buy walmart st3593a filters. otherwise, buy honda or denso filters online.
next time, learn to ALWAYS check for old gaskets stuck to the block.
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On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:44:45 -0700, jim beam wrote:

Hmmm...i've used Fram filters for a while.
Of course, with Toyotas I use Toyota filters, since they were rated the best filter by Consumer Reports (um...20 years ago!). Since I usually have two or three cars that use the same filter, I buy them by the case!
Also, do you know who makes the Wal*Mart filters? I would think they would be Fram or Purolater.
Another good filter (according to what I have read about filters, at any rate) is Wix. They have two grades: Professional and Economy. Get the Wix filter in the white and yellow box from CarQuest.
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Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

Champion Laboratories. Champ also makes many AC-Delco branded filters and the STP brand sold at AutoZone. Champ used to make filters for Bosch USA, but that stopped when Bosch bought Purolator.
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I prefer the K&N filters. They have a 1" nut welded on them for easy removal.

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L Alpert wrote:

k&n don't filter much though - very high particle throughput. i wouldn't compromise engine life for the sake of saving a buck on a proper filter wrench.

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wrote:

I bought a Honda Canada oil filter the other day and had an interesting experience. When I told the parts guy at the local dealership that I wanted two filters, one for my '04 accord and another for my '92, I was informed, "they are the same filter now...we've gone to one size for both cars." What troubled me was that the dimensions of this new "one size fits all" Honda Canada oil filter are actually pretty small. It would be an appropriate size for my '92, but relatively smaller than what is usually available in other brands for my '04. Also, this filter seemed somewhat flimsy, and was significantly lighter in weight than a Bosch of the same size. So I'm going to generally stick with the latter for now, but I will try K&N at some point. Currently, I've also got an Amsoil filter on my '04. Two interesting links on the oil filter debate (I think one of them may be from Tegger's excellent Honda website):
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html#fram-dg8a
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
- Paul S.
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I have a 2004 and 2001 6 cyl Accords, and the filters are different diameters.

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I think the "one size" is just for the 4 cylinders. My daughter's '93 Accord was also affected by the part change. I was dubious but the Honda counterman said the new, smaller filter was as good as the older style. Honda has been pretty smart with most of their materials, so I'm going with them on this. FWIW, the OEM filter for our Toyota Prius cars is about the same size.
Mike
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OK....well, one vote in favor of the new protocol. I'll keep an open mind and keep on researching. One thing is for sure -- those Amsoil filters are not going to be a viable long term option...they are just way too expensive at 15 bucks each. - Paul
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On 4/21/2007 11:08 PM Paul S spake these words of knowledge:

I have a 2001 Odyssey (6-cylinder) and a 2003 Accord 4-cylinder. The filters are the same. In my case, verified with American Honda, my dealer, and several online Genuine Honda Parts retailers.
RFT!!! Dave Kelsen
--
"If you want a good argument against democracy, just spend ten minutes
with the average voter." -- Winston Churchill
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On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 00:08:33 -0400, Paul S wrote:

Toyota did this years ago! Two sizes fit all. One size for the smaller engines, and one for the bigger. No problem!
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OK...TWO votes in favor now. I'm already feeling less and less ripped off. - Paul
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My dealer sells only ONE SIZE filter for Hondas. They told me some dealers have a huge stock of the older larger filters, but Honda only supplies one size for them now.
G-Man

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15400-PLM-A02 does 95% of Honda engines.
There's another size that fits a few TLs and the NSX.
--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
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Greetings To All:
This is a brief update on the "total loss" of oil I experienced recently with my '04 accord. Basically, I've now driven the car about 300 miles since the mishap (running the engine for 15 seconds with no oil at all after accidentally double-gasketing the filter), and it seems to be doing fairly well. I'm getting 33 miles to the gallon which is not bad for a lot of in town driving, and the acceleration and shifting are good. What's troublesome is a mild but noticeable noise, similar to Freon gurgling in one of those old A/C units that goes in a window, for a few seconds when I turn the car off. You can only hear it with the hood up, standing next to the engine. This noise is a slight metallic clanging like low pitched wind chimes, and it's definitely coming from under the valve cover. I haven't looked at the cam shaft lobes yet, but I may want to have a mechanic inspect them the next time I'm ready for a valve adjustment. I did have the serpentine accessory belt changed out as per suggestions received on this board, just in case of oil contamination. Thanks again for all of the helpful information and support. - Paul
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It is very likely that you will have that noise for the next 300,000 miles.
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That sound isn't what I'd associate with oil loss. I think fortune has favored you this time :-)
Mike
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On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:30:57 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
Thanks, Mike...when it comes to cars, I need all the help I can get. - Paul.

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