Where is my oil disappearing to?

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wrote:


That's a problem. File a warranty claim.
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On 5/28/06 5:03 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com,

experiencing is 'normal' oil consumption. He cites some technical bulletin written in 1988 that gives validity to the notion that a quart of oil lost every 1000 miles is normal. I just spoke to Honda at their toll-free customer service number and they are also claiming that this is their spec. They are not willing to open the engine unless I foot the bill.
What to do now? My inclination is to let an authorized Honda service center do an oil change and not add any oil for the next 3500 miles, letting the engine burn up. I only hope that it doesn't choose to fail when I'm in it with the family on a tall highway bridge. My warranty doesn't obligate me to top it off between oil changes.
Be
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BE wrote:
My warranty doesn't obligate me to top it off between oil changes.
--------------------------------
Hmmmmmmm. Careful . . . . Even lawyers can read the Owner's Manual.
'Curly'
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BE wrote:

That's funny. My '88 Civic with 244,800 miles on it uses less than 0.25 quarts in 3000 miles. Moreover, a service bulletin written in 1988 is not going to be applicable to a newer car. How could they have known what problems a 2005 model, for example, was going to have in 1988?!?!?
You may need to get someone to be your advocate and deal with Honda. I would take your car to a well respected independent Honda shop in your area and have them change the oil and then document the consumption (and absence of leaks). Then have them deal with Honda for you if they are willing, e.g., you've been or will be a good customer of that particular shop. Moreover, sometimes it's best to skip the dealer and go direct to Honda's customer relations.
http://automobiles.honda.com/info/customer_relations.asp?bhjs=0
Eric
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On 5/31/06 2:02 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@spam.now, "Eric"

the party line on 1000 miles / per quart being OK to lose.
Be
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wrote:

But your consumption exceeds the "normal" rate.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it does. You are required to properly maintain the vehicle. Checking and adding oil is routine maintenance. Read your owners manual.
Much better that you insist they document oil consumption by topping it off and having you drive it for 1000 miles. If it takes more than a quart to bring it back up to full, then your consumption exceeds the limits of normal and repair is needed.
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On 6/2/06 12:45 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com,

miles. One thing they found was that the washer on the oil drain plug was incorrect - a thin substitute for the thicker Honda part was in place. I guess one of the other oil change places I took the van to put the wrong one back on. I don't know if this could have had any role in the oil loss...
Be
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BE wrote:

Do you see oil drips where you park, e.g., garage, driveway, etc.?
Eric
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On 6/3/06 1:36 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@spam.now, "Eric"

No drips anywhere. We have a new, clean garage floor (since 2005) that has not a drop upon it.
Be
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wrote:

An incorrect washer might cause a leak problem but won't change oil consumption. you would have to be making a huge mess for a leak to cause measurable oil loss. Be aware that the correct washer is called a crush washer because it is crushed when installed and should be thinner when removed than before it was installed. That is why it should be replaced each time.
If I understand correctly, the dealer has measured and acknowledged that your consumption is greater than 1 qt./1000 mi. Hopefully you have this documented in writing. If the dealer does acknowledge that the engine needs repair, insist on talking to the Honda rep. The 1000 mile standard is barely justifiable as it is. Even being near it should merit at least consideration for a warranty claim. If you are over it, even by just a little, they should fix it.
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On 6/3/06 10:04 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com,

is not trusted.
Be
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wrote:

Well, then they have to measure it. Ask them how they want to do that. In the mean time make sure they document that the customer has reported oil consumption greater than 1qt. per 1000 miles.
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On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:04:37 GMT, Gordon McGrew

Can the car really meet modern clean air standards burning oil like that?
My old Alfa Romeo required a quart every couple of fill-ups, but that was a design "feature" described in the manual.
And we won't even talk about the 1960's two-cycle Saabs where you just poured the quart right into the gas tank!
J.
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problem--oil didn't show up on the dip stick. Filled the oil to the full mark and within 250 mi it was below the dip stick again. Because it was so severe an oil loss, the Dealer got Honda's OK to look for the problem with only parts to be charged. Found some cracked carbon valve seals, replaced them and put things back together again. Same oil loss recurred. Honda authorized as complete an engine teardown as needed to find and resolve with no further $$$ charged. Tore the engine down and found some bad piston rings; replaced them all and the oil loss problem went away. So she basically ended up with a rebuilt engine *zero timed* for very little cost to her. Honda's response to the problem was excellent, obviously their concern and motivation was "How many more are there out there like this, is there something about 55,000 mi. in this engine that we've got to worry about and if so, what. She got the car new and was putting about 400-500 mi a week on it so it was probably one of the fleet leaders in mileage. MLD
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rings were compression or oil control? I'd expect a dealer to do at least one compression test (that probably came out okay enough) and swallow hard a couple times before tearing an engine down.
Mike
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started doing anything, they actually drained and refilled the oil and sent her on her way. After the 250 mi and no oil on the dip stick they became believers. Obviously, the cracked (broken) rings were not associated with compression, the dealer wasn't that bad. Honda responded as well as they did because 55,000 miles is relatively low for their engine and the need to know if this was "one of a kind" or a symptom of "what was to come" from that family. BTW, she ended up with over 200,000 miles before giving the car up. MLD
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MLD, In most cases, if there is a defective ring--it can be detected by a compression check. I was surprised that the Honda mechanic did not conduct a compression check prior to a teardown of the engine. Perhaps the mechanic conducted a compression check and done the teardown of the engine as a direct result of the compression check test results. Jason
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Jason wrote:

if they were an experienced professional, they'd know that a broken top ring makes the most difference to compression [and little difference to oil consumption], the second ring, much less to compression [and a reasonable difference to oil consumption], and the oil control rings, none at all to compression, [but a whole ship-load to oil consumption]. since oil loss is the the problem, and lack of compression apparently not, what conclusions do you draw here about the efficacy of a compression test here jason? hint: the professional mechanics' actions here should give you a clue.

dude, compression can vary quite a lot from cylinder to cylinder, and the engine still be perfectly serviceable with little oil consumption. i respectfully suggest you either get some training and experience under your belt OR you stick to topics you actually /do/ know about. thanks.

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jim beam wrote:

Uh, all ring sets contribute to compression AND oil control.
As an example, a couple of years ago I inherited an early 1980's Mazda B2000 P/U with about 160K miles on the odometer that was running lousy along with oil control problems. The reason, three pistons had broken compression rings.
In real life, cause and effect can vary widely vs. the published word...
JT
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Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

uh, re-read my post. the extent of compression and oil consumpton effect varies by ring.
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