will honda's usa "marketing" dept learn this lesson?

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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:


which requires that they satisfy demand, and repeat those sales! how are they going to do that if they make junk and can't retain?
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But jim, the thing is that they are fulfilling their goal without fulfilling *your* goals.
But they *are* fulfilling *their* goals.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

if their goals are losing share to toyota on the civic vs. corolla, failing completely on the rsx and ridgeline, and giving away the vast and loyal civic/prelude customer base to subaru, you're dead right - they've succeeded handsomely!
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Silly question here. I own a '98 and a 2000 Civic (both manual LX) and test drove newer models (I think one in 2004 and one in 2006). Somehow I felt that the new ones are not as nice as the ones I have, but was not able to specifically express what it was. Maybe the new ones are a little bulkier, a little more tame, maybe something like they're not as fun as the '98 or 2000.

think) onward that makes them less fun to drive?
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gigelus2k3 wrote:

weights are about the same, perhaps just a little heavier for the more recent civics. biggest difference is suspension. changed to macpherson strut up front in 2001. it's a lot more vague in feel and can't corner as well. ok on freeways though so the freds don't notice much. cheaper to manufacture hence ubiquity on most cheaper cars.
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On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:22:48 +0000, Jim Yanik wrote:

I have a Supra (88) and a Scion tC (05)
The seating position in the Civic Si is the same as the Supra. The seating position in the Scion is the same as Outback Steakhouse.
Wish I had bought the Civic...
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Jim Yanik wrote:

They've also managed to make the new Civics *ugly*. Toyota has done the same thing: given their cars unattractive, militaristic-looking noses like American vehicles tend to have. One really wonders if they realize who has been winning the sales wars the last 5 years, and who has been losing...
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mjc13 wrote:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I *hated* the look of the hatchback civics. I like the look of the new ones. The Si is a thing of beauty, IMO, and the rest of the line isn't that much different.
Now, the Japanese Si Hatchback is a nice looking car, maintaining the new style look, and making it a hatch. I would buy one of those in a second if they were available here...
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On Jul 4, 8:58 pm, "mjc13<REMOVETHIS>"

I think the current Civic is gorgeous, even better looking than previous generation, which was also an improvement over the previous generation before that.

I do agree that Toyotas are pretty ugly.
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mjc13<REMOVETHIS> wrote:> They've also managed to make the new Civics *ugly*. Toyota has done

IMO, most manufacturers are making ugly cars now. Look at Nissan's line-up... Yuck!!!
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Well, I agree with the others here, that today's Accord coupes deliver whatever it is you think you'd get out of a Prelude.
EXCEPT the distinction.
I agree with you that, in terms of sizzle, Honda/Acura is determinately non-sizzling. The Si's are so-so, the S2000 is an engineering marvel but addresses only a tiny market, no successor to the NSX, no V8's for the top of the line. They seem to be underselling the Fix for reasons that escape me, but the thing is 500 pounds too heavy in any case.
My Accord is perhaps the world's best automotive bargain and an engineering marvel itself (as are also the Camry), but ... not as exciting as one would like.
Just look at that new Audi R8 coupe ... bring back a Prelude in that class, why doncha?
J.
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wrote:

Put a 1998-2001 last generation Prelude next to an Accord coupe,and the Accord will be bigger and taller.(and heavier) IMO,significantly different. The older 1990 Prelude was much closer to the Accord. Then there was that wierd Prelude inbetween them.....
Even the defunct RSX was sportier than any Accord.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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I like the taller small cars, if I want an MGB roadster there's already the S2000. I look at the current Porches as a little retro in staying so low. The new motors are so much better, a little extra wind resistance, even a *little* extra weight, are OK.
How 'bout this, a new Prelude would make a great new Honda vehicle to experiment with low weight technologies, like the Lotusii.
http://lotuscars.com/Elise.aspx
Civic Si engine, Accord-derived composite chassis, << 2200 pounds, maybe 4wd option, << $40k list.
For Acura, I *still* say put in a 4-liter V8, make it an RL-class sedan << 2800 pounds (V8 drivetrain is still gonna be heavy), but at that power/weight ratio it would also fly. Probably $60k range. Put a few solar cells on the trunk for good luck! :)
Needless to say, both would get outstanding mileage, for the class.
... though I see that Lotus is only listed at 24/29. With Honda tuning (and some loss of zoom) I'd think a two-seater like that could go 29/36 or better - current Si sedan lists at 23/32 @ 3000 pounds. Hmm, oddly enough, the specs are almost the same for the coupe. Error?
J.
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If Honda continued to make the Prelude today, put today's 'lude against a 98-01 'lude, and today's car would be bigger and heavier.
Fact.
So?

Ever driven a current model V6 Accord coupe w/manual trans?
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