2000 Elantra GLS 100900 miles and transmisson gone

For Hyundaitech or anyone else with knowledge on a transmission/ warranty problem.
I have a 2000 Elantra that has 100,900 miles. It is a 5 sp manual and
while driving down the highway at 60 mph the car pops out of 5th gear. Does anyone have any knowledge of this problem. My non-Hyundai mechanic checked it out and said the 'sink rows' were bad for 5th gear. I'm not knowledgable in this area at all. I took it to my local Hyundai dealer and they wanted about $380 for 4 hours to diagnose this by removing the transmission and take it apart. I'm not sure that I want to invest a lot of money into this car. Any advice on this problem--does it sound like sink rows? I called Hyundai and they pretty much told me that it doesn't matter that it is over the powertrain warranty by 900 miles. They mentioned a 'goodwill' program where I pay for it up front and then a panel at Hyundai decides whether or not to reimburse me for any of it. Anyone have experience with the 'goodwill' program and what was your success in getting reimbursed from Hyundai.
Skeet
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Proper term is "syncros", short for syncronizers. They allow for the smotth shift from gear to gear.

Possible, but can also be a bent linkage.
I called Hyundai and

It sucks when youy are that close in miles. Good luck.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Exactly, and at that mileage, they may well be worn out. However, while worn synchro's would make shifting difficult (high effort and/or grinding), I don't think they can cause the transmission to pop out of gear. They're engaged during shifting, but once the transmission is in gear, the synchro's don't do anything.

Except that our transmission is cable operated. It could be a bad shift cable.

Yes, I did with my Excel. They actually covered a transmission rebuild 75% when the car was 4000 miles past warranty (the problem had started while still under warranty). The problem was a combination of synchro wear and bearing wear. They let me have it rebuilt at a local AAMCO dealer (with a good reputation). AAMCO billed them for the transmission rebuild and and a clutch replacement (something you should do as well) and they paid 75% of the entire bill - which they agreed to do in advance, in writing. That pretty much covered the entire cost of the transmission rebuild. I had no problem with paying for the clutch replacement myself, as it's considered a maintenance item. Essentially, I paid for the parts and got the labor for nothing.
Overall, that was as good an outcome as I could have hoped for and I was very impressed with Hyundai's service. That's one of the main reasons I bought my Elantra when the Excel died at ~170k miles.
In your case, if the rest of the car is in good shape, get the transmission rebuilt and replace the clutch. Even if you end up spending $600-$800 on it, that's a LOT cheaper than a new car. You should get at least another 50K miles out of the car.
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Did you have it first diagnosed at the dealer? Or did you take it to AAMCO and get their estimate and then go back to Hyundai with the data and ask them to cover it and have it repaired at AAMCO? My question is what was the sequence on how you got Hyundai to cover it-- especially getting repaired at an outside shop?

How much did you use a local Hyundai dealer, if at all?

The car also needs 2 axles according to the dealer. In May of 2007 I had one replaced, and I don't recall the specific reason other than there was a boot or something that is packed with grease around the axle and it was cracked. Seems odd that that would need replaced again--which I'm assuming if the car needs 2 axles that would be part of it.
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Skeet wrote:

AAMCO did the diagnosis and Hyundai accepted it. I never took it to the dealer. It was not an uncommon problem on that car, which is probably why they didn't require me to take it to the dealer. Considering that dealers don't do a lot of tranny rebuilds, I suspect they also figured I'd be more satisfied with the work done by a specialist. The original problem started at under 60K miles, it was rebuilt at 64K and the repair lasted for over 100K miles.

In this case, not at all. I don't know if they'll deal with you the same way or not.

You're correct that if an axle (a.k.a., "half-shaft") was replaced that recently, there is no way it should need it again. My dealer warranties their work for a year, but I'm not sure if that's Hyundai policy or not. I would certainly ask Hyundai when you speak to them. If the car is still under warranty, the axles should be covered.
BTW, what the dealer was referring to was the boot(s) on the CV joint(s). They can crack and allow the grease to leak out and water/dirt to get in. While it's possible to replace just the grease and the boot, it's better to replace the joint, as you don't know if it's been damaged by water or debris. Replacing the axle replaces both the inner and outer joints and it takes less time than taking the old axle off, replacing a joint, then reinstalling the axle. The parts cost more for an axle replacement, but the labor is less and you end up with two new joints that were assembled in a clean factory environment.
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The one thing I can tell you for sure is that the problem is not your synchronizers (synchros). Most likely, the 5th gear and the shift hub sleeve are worn to where the teeth are no longer long enough to hold the transmission in gear.
Ask for an estimate on replacing 5th gear and the 5th-reverse shift hub. That's a good starting point for the minimum price you'll wind up paying.
Shop around a few places to see the range of prices. Do not get a quote from the place that told you it was the synchros. This mechanic is not knowledgeable enough to perform this repair. Also keep in mind that the true fault will not be apparent until the transmission is disassembled, and that you'll want a rebuild including the replacement of all worn parts (usually synchronizers would be included in this). This repair should be done by an experienced, competent, and knowledgeable manual transmission rebuilder.
Also call Hyundai customer assistance. See if you can get Hyundai to commit to some sort of assistance based on a preliminary inspection at the dealer without finding the actual fault. For example, you might pay labor and they might pay parts. Or they might split the repair 50/50 with you.
Or they could even cover the whole thing. While the actual failure cannot be determined for certain without disassembling the transmission, a basic inspection will allow the dealer to determine the car that has been provided the transmission and its general condition. This may be important for Hyundai in making a determination as to whether they'll assist you. There is no committee. The factory representative for that dealer will make the determination.
-- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai / More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
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Thanks that helps.

Dealer repair manager called me back later and said he spoke to the factory rep and they will NOT be covering anything. What is your best advice for proceeding. MInd you that we still don't have the transmission taken apart yet to find out what all will be needed to repair. Also apparently from their initial look the car needs 2 axles. I have the idea that if i were to get this repaired at the dealer I will pay way more than at a different shop--perhaps that is incorrect.
Overall, what I am uncertain about is the best way to proceed in the hopes that something might be covered by their goodwill program. Hyundai Customer Service said that they need an actual diagnosis from the Hyundai dealer which will cost about $380. Now I'm not giving up on them covering something on it from the Goodwill program, but after they diagnose it do I then have to have them fix it? And if I then take it somewhere to get a cheaper rebuild, will I be paying all over again.
Sorry, I'm just not in my element on transmissions and don't have a lot of money laying around to invest in this car--yet of course need the car.

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Skeet wrote:

Whatever you do, DO NOT accept the dealer's word as final. For all you know, they are lying to you about talking with Hyundai. For some unfathomable reason, some dealers are "warranty work-phobic" and will try to get out of it at any cost. Good dealers are more concerned about keeping customers happy. From what I understand, Hyundai reimburses dealers pretty well for warranty work, so there's no valid reason for them to fight against it other than greed. Perhaps Hyundaitech can shed some light on this.
From this point forward, deal with Hyundai directly if possible. Explain to them that you don't feel that the dealer is treating you honestly and you're not comfortable dealing with them. Ask them if they will accept a diagnosis from a transmission specialist. An experienced transmission professional will know the common problems with specific transmissions and can diagnose them with a simple, FREE driving test. Worn synchro's (hard shifting, grinding), worn bearings (noise and roughness) and popping out of gear are obvious problems with well-known causes. It doesn't require a tear-down to diagnose most transmission problems, though it will be required to determine exactly what parts are needed. They can still provide an estimate that will be accurate enough that Hyundai should accept it. When I had my transmission issue, AAMCO gave me an estimate, I negotiated with Hyundai on the coverage and AAMCO fixed the transmission. I don't recall if I paid for it and sent the bill to Hyundai or if Hyundai paid AAMCO and I just paid the balance. Either way, I was happy with the outcome.
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The fact that the dealer says nothing will be covered-- after speaking to the factory rep-- means nothing will be covered (warranty or goodwill) if you take the car to that dealer. While we don't know whether they actually talked to the factory rep, there's no way of finding out for certain whether any such discussion took place. If they're dishonest enough to give false information now-- I'm not charging that's the case-- they'll have no problem denying coverage and never speaking to the rep. Best case scenario is that they didn't actually speak to the rep and another dealer may help you. Since you've spoken to customer assistance and received no commitment from them, it means they're leaving any decision up to the rep.
There's little question you'll pay a premium at the dealer. Check a couple transmission shops and present them the scenario I described in my earlier post, and add about $300 for synchros and miscellaneous other things that may come up. Also get a price for them replacing the axles while they're doing the work. Add it up and see whether it's money you can invest or are willing to invest in this vehicle. Worst case scenario, you can not use fifth gear or physically hold the gearshift in fifth gear until something else fails to operate properly. If the problem is what I think it is (gear/shift hub wear or damage), continuing to drive it isn't likely to spread damage to other areas of the transmission. But let the potential expense be your guide as to whether you should repair this vehicle or look for another.
Most dealers will be able to rebuild a manual transmission. I don't do as many as I did ten years ago, and it wasn't a lot then. Every once in a while, however, we'd get a string and I'd have two or three apart at one time. I suspect the reason Hyundai allowed AAMCO to rebuild in Brian's case is that the dealer didn't have qualified personnel to do that repair.
If you do have the transmission repaired, you'll want to choose a facility that has a good reputation for repairing manual transmissions. Check word of mouth and any other review sources you can access. Be cautious regarding internet review sites where people can simply post their experience. There's little guarantee the good posts weren't posted by the shop itself.
-- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai / More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
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