Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

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Really? Have you priced out a fuel cell lately? And where do you buy hydrogen? Or for that matter, a car that burns hydrogen? Of course you can modify a piston engine to burn hydrogen, but I don't think you will get a cost advantage and it certainly won't be convenient.
The Honda and Toyota hybrids have been on the road long enough to prove the doomsayers wrong. Hybrid batteries are very reliable and it appears that they could easily last the life of the car in many or most cases. The batteries and other hybrid components have an 8 to 10 year warranty so they are all likely to last the life of the car for most owners. AFAIK, the warranty is not pro-rated.

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Yes, those batteries are expensive as well as being dangerous in an accident.

In spite of the weight hybrids do very well. There are many reasons for this, and some of the technology can be applied to mild hybrids to get much of the fuel savings, without having a huge battery.

I live 1km from Ballard, a fuel cell developer. A few years ago a tanker delivering H to their plant developed a leak and fire at the hose fitting. The area 0.5km around was shut down for 12+ hrs until it burned off. Fuel cells need much further development and then there is the high cost, plus a required refueling network for this dangerous fuel.
IMO the new diesels, developed in Germany will be the next fuel saving hot vehicle. Over 50% of people in Europe are now buying them. The 2L VW diesel performs very well in the small mid size cars.
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I would have agreed with you in the past, but diesel is selling for $1 a gallon more than regular right now. At current prices, a gas engine at 40 mpg costs the same in fuel per mile as a diesel at 50 mpg. I don't know if it has changed in Europe, but gas and diesel were just pennies apart per liter last year, diesel was 1.16 Euro gas was 1.22 per liter.
Fuel oil cost was exactly the same as diesel too. In milder climates it is not uncommon for homeowners to buy 5 or 10 gallons at a time at the filling station as needed.
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I agree with you that if diesel is selling for too high premium, using diesel doesn't make sense. Here in Canada diesel has recently crept a bit higher than regular gasoline, but I believe it's more of a supply situation as diesel use is increasing. In the USA you seem to be facing more variability in fuel pricing than here in Canada.
For urban driving a properly sized diesel gets about 30% more MPG than an equivalent performance gasoline engine. The Jeep Cherokee 2 wd EPA figures are: Gas 3.7L- 15/20 Gas 5.7L- 13/19 Diesel 3L- 18/23 Performance is close to the gas 5.7L.
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wrote:

Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage, that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car, you're not. Not necessarily.
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IMO they've similar in interior space. A few months ago we drove to the airport in a Corolla and returned in a Prius. The Prius did have the advantage of being able to pile our luggage up to the back window, so you couldn't see out the window even the tiny bit that is normal.
I would never pile the luggage that high for safety reasons and would wrap a cargo net around the Prius luggage to avoid it coming forward in a quick stop.
I have read that the Prius mileage in cold winter weather is similar to the Corolla's.
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They're not.
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wrote:

Grille blocking enhances the Prius' mileage significantly. Tomes
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I'd think that Toyota would know that and have a thermostatic louver rather than risk having people block it when too warm.
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wrote in message

Yep, I wish Toyota would have put that in as well. I a car as sophisticated as this one is, it should also be automatically driven. Tomes
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

It's a little larger, though it's misleading because the cargo capacity is higher only if you pile things up so you can't see out the back! It's still closer to the Corolla in size than the Camry.
Corolla ------- 92.0 cubic feet: passenger compartment 12.3 cubic feet: cargo
Prius ----- 96.2 cubic feet: passenger compartment 16.1 cubic feet: cargo
Camry ----- 101.4 cubic feet: passenger compartment 16.7 cubic feet: cargo
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But is bigger better? That extra 4 cubic feet of passenger space does little if it is not in the hip room when you want it. Of if the trunk space is more in volume but the trunk lid is too small to fit a decent sized carton through it. .
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

That's a good point. I find the Corolla to have much more usable room. It's a lot more cramped than a Corolla. You can carry five people in a Corolla and not be too uncomfortable, but not in a Prius which is really good for only two adults and two children. Still, if you're using the Prius as a commute vehicle, and have a larger family vehicle for trips with more people, it's fine.
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That's correct, the Corolla and Prius are similar, but if you pile things high in the Prius it has more space for cargo. I would not do that due to the safety concern of luggage flying forward in a fast stop.
The Prius has a lot of passenger Cu Ft. forward of the dash, which is unusable. Having been a passenger in both, with two & three others, I suggest they are similar for practical purposes. As for the driver the previous Corollas didn't fit me comfortably; I'm 5'-11". A similar height friend of mine who has the previous Corolla confirms that it wouldn't fit me very well as a driver, his shorter wife drives his. I've not tried the new Corolla for size.
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Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site, base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference $2,715, City epa for Prius is 48, Corolla 26 Presuming that is the best you could do in either car (not likely) the Prius would use 250 gallons of gas a year, the Corolla 461 presuming your 12,000 per year driven....@ lets say $4.50 a gallon you would save $949 per year/ 2715=2.8 years for break even, then you would save oh I don't know $1000 a year in gas, not to mention be driving a MUCH cleaner car and doing your own little part to reduce the use of fossil fuel.
As for the batteries, Honda has had Hybrids since 96, Toyota about 98 (not positive) if there were massive battery failures, don't you think there would be a public outcry by now? why do you think no one really knows what it would cost to replace them? could it be not many are replaced? If it were a common item, I can assure you, there would be a price attached to it. By the way, Brakes last much longer in a Hybrid due to the fact that much of the forward energy is converted to electricity when stopping.
So, Lets recap, 10 years ownership, Prius, car and fuel only $32,350, Corolla, car & fuel only $37,855, so, looks like you can't afford to save $5,505?
I am not a fan of the Prius BTW, I prefer the Honda Civic Hybrid, it, to me is a far more comfortable car.
wrote:

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: Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site, : base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference : $2,715,
ONE, the difference between your own numbers is $4000.
TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not. A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.
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Newbie wrote:

Hmmm, Cost of battery pack when it needs replacing?
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Is no different than the cost of the traditional automatic transmission when it needs replacing.
And after 125K, a traditional auto trans will need replacing. It seems to be normal nowadays.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Maybe on some vehicles. I know a lot of high-mileage Corollas (>200K) and it's certainly not normal to need a new transmission, at least no one I know of with a high-mileage Corolla (or Camry, or Accord, or Civic) has ever needed one.
Where did you get the idea that it was "normal?".
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Oops that was a math error, so that drops your savings down to $4,000 in 10 years. Show me the data indicating battery packs fail in great numbers, at least as much as transmission and engine problems as hybrid cars have been on the road more than 10 years and some have over 300,000 miles on them. The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual transmission, I would not even consider one. It would also have poor resale value? though not a major factor, but, unless you are going to drive the car into the ground, it has some bering. If you are comparing a car with an automatic trans, yes, you need to add the auto to the other....BTW. I did use the base Corolla for the comparison but comparing a stripped econo-box to a fairly well equipped car is the same logic people use when comparing the Honda hybrid to the Civic DX, sorry, like it or not, the hybrid is on par with the EX not the DX so, though you may be happy with a low end car, Hybrids are not and therefore the difference it owed to more than the cost of the hybrid system but the Hybrid may not be for you.
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