How much better is the '06 Sonata?

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Eric G. wrote:


My normal conditions are primarily rural two-lanes and four-lanes with lots of semi traffic. I drive route 15 to work and it is the only north-south route in central PA and is very heavily trafficed with large trucks being dominant. Probably deer are one of the biggest road hazards.
I don't drive in the city on a daily basis, but I travel a lot in my work so I drive fairly often in a number of cities around the US and the world.
Matt
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Venice is one of the most challenging places to drive especially if you don't float too well.
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I guess I don't understand. someone wrote "how much better is the '06' Sonata...
Then everyone get's their claws out.
If you guys wanna bitch to each other, please change the Subject and take it there.
I wanted to see what everyone thought about the '06' sonata and Learned NOTHING...
PS.. It's appears that it's not just this tread but many ones in many groups.

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Richard Johnson wrote:

No, we were just having a little fun.

Who appointed you guardian?

I've posted extensively about my 06 Sonata in another thread as have others. If you've learned nothing, then you aren't paying attention or reading much.

That's usenet. Get used to it. It's been that way for decades, well at least the two that I've been using it.
Matt
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I drove an amphibious Volkswagen Beetle there wise guy :-)
I would have to guess that you've never actually been to Venice to say that, because there are plenty of roads around Venice "proper".
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Sure there are! There are plenty roads around Atlantis, too.
But it's just that little preposition "in" that made me comment!
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LOL, yeah, I know :-P
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It's only easier to admit if it were actually true. If telling the truth just makes me look silly, then just call me Mr. Silly.
I'll stop feeding the troll now because I know that almost everyone that bothered to drive the V6 bought it.
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Eric G. wrote:

I drove both. I liked both. The decision point for me was three-fold:
1. I like stick shift and the Sonata doesn't offer a stick with the V-6 2. I was after fuel economy. 3. I wanted to keep the initial price as low as possible.
So, the 4 cylinder was an easy decision. And the ironic part is that it easily out accelerates my V-6 minivan and my V-6 pickup truck. :-)
Matt
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Fair enough. I'm not judging your decision. For me, having to sit in daily crawling traffic, a stick just doesn't make any sense. I did NOT drive the 4 with a stick (the dealer didn't have one even if I wanted to). Maybe that has good enough power, but you have to admit that the automatic was a bit on the feebler side as far as pulling out into traffic, no? The V6 was even an easier decision for me without the stick in the equation.
Just out of curiosity, do you know how much the minivan and pickup weigh versus the Sonata?
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Eric G. wrote:

And I wasn't judging your decision, I just was picking on your justification for it. :-)
I didn't drive a 4 cylinder automatic, but I found the V-6 automatic to be fairly peppy both at low speeds and at high. I found the 4 cylinder stick nearly as peppy up until about 80 MPH (don't tell the dealer about my test drives!). The V-6, once it shifts down, pulls better at higher speeds, but if you hold it in 5th, the advantage over the 4 cylinder stick seemed minor to me.
Yes, I likely wouldn't buy a stick in the city, then again, I just might as I really like stick shift and nearly despise automatics. I'm probably the only person in my county who has a snow-plow equipped pickup truck with a 5 speed. Everyone tells me you can't plow snow with a standard without burning up the clutch. Well, I've done it for 50,000 miles or so with no problem (the truck has 90K, but has only had the plow for the past 50K). I also tow a camper with a manual tranny.
I should say that I drove semis for 5 years so I really do know how to drive a stick. Driven properly, a stick will do just about anything an automatic will do, and does a lot of things better and for less money and maintenance cost and far fewer failures.

I'm not precisly sure, but my truck weighs about 5,600 lbs empty (I've had it on scales so I know this number is pretty close). I'm not sure about the minivan, but I'm guessing it weights 4,000 or so (it is an 03 Grand Caravan). The truck has the 4.3L Vortec V-6 and the van has the 3.3L V-6.
I'd have to go out and get my manual to look up the Sonata weight, but I was thinking that the 4 cylinder/5 speed was just shy of 3,000 lbs and it seems that the V-6 automatic was a couple of hundred pounds heavier. The extra weight, and I believe higher final drive ratio, is the likely reason that the acceleration difference isn't as pronounced as the torque difference between the two engines might suggest.
If I get a minute, I'll Google and find the exact weights of the GC and Sonata.
Matt
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The bottom line is the AT 4 could not get out of its own way. If anything, it was about the same as my Elantra. Considering the traffic, merging and general acceleration needed in my daily driving area, it wasn't an option for me. Again, it is a safety issue. If you don't consider that safety, come live here for a while and see for yourself. People will, for the most part, push you off the road if you're in their way.

I also ran both of my test drive vehicles hard and the 4AT couldn't hold a candle to the V6. I find it hard to believe that the 4MT would have much more pop, but it does have a higher final drive ratio, so that could make a difference. It is also probably 200-300 pounds lighter (guess) which would also help it out. Sounds like you should have also looked at the Elantra GT.

I also drove a MT for 20 years. I love it too (my Elantra was my first AT purchased more because of the wife). I still have an '88 chevy P/U with a MT. It's a light buty truck, and I don't plow with it, but we do plow with the 1990 Dodge Ram P/U with an MT at work. As you said, it works fine. We're at 100,000 miles at work with the first clutch and my own truck is at 175,000 miles with the clutch replaced only once.

I have never driven a semi, but I drive a 1968 Mack tanker truck with 14 gears at work. Ten years ago I would have agreed with you completely. I still agree that a manual will run for less money and maintenance cost, but honestly there is almost nothing a stick will do these days that an atuo can't.

Exact numbers aren't important really. Just run a general HP/weight ratio and you will see why the Sonata accelerates better. Yes tourque can be a factor too, but usually not unless you are comparing a diesel engine.
Eric
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Eric G. wrote:

Sounds like you need a Hummer, not a Sonata. :-)

A stick can be push or coast started if the battery dies. A stick can be more safely towed. I can control which gear my transmission is in at all times. I realize the shiftronic can now do this as well, but it seemed a little gimicky to me. I am simply too used to the "H" pattern and couldn't remember which way to move the lever to shift up and down manually. A stick won't overheat like an automatic can. And manual still gets better fuel mileage in almost all vehicles, though I have seen a couple where the auto was the same or even claimed to be better. It is is better, then I believe that is due to a poorly designed manual or an improper final drive ratio.

Actually, torque is the only factor insofar as acceleration is concerned as torque is a measure of force and force is the factor in acceleration as Newton told us so many years ago. Remember, F=ma. Horsepower determines the top speed capability as it is a measure of work and the faster the car goes the more work it is doing.
Matt
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sticks also dont have the power loss that autos do. a v6 sonata 5 spd would be a hoot

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Jody wrote:

True, but the difference is now much smaller with the lockup TCs. Although you still have some pumping loss in the tranny, it is minor when you aren't shifting.
Yes, I likely would have bought a V-6 if I could have obtained the 5 speed with it. Quite an oversight on Hyundai's part IMO.
Matt
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Matt, in a continuing post on the Sonata automatic transmission vs. the manual, said: "True, but the difference is now much smaller with the lockup TCs. Although you still have some pumping loss in the tranny, it is minor when you aren't shifting."......
Quite true. In fact, people with manuals, who do a lot of open road, country or interstate driving will probably get as good or better gas mileage with an automatic. The close numbers of EPA ratings of the Sonata 4 (maunal vs. automatic) bear this out.
In real life, it may be even more stark. Consumer Reports just released its February guide, where it tested the new Honda Civic - same trim line, same engine, one with a manual, one with an automatic.
Overall, the manual whipped the automatic, 31 mpg to 28. And city mileage had a distinct advantage to the manual. But in highway driving, the manual got 40 mpg, the automatic got 43.
Indeed, with me personally doing much more open road driving than city driving, that is more than enough to convince me, if I ever bought one, to get the Civic automatic, even if I like driving a manual.
By the way, Consumer Reports, no matter what you may think of them, will be releasing a full report in the March issue (due on newsstands in about a month) on the new 2006 Sonata, and from what I hear, they will release a full test on both the GLS 4 and the LX V6, though my hunch is both will have an automatic. CU will also release tests of the new Ford Fusion (probably also the 4 & 6), and the Dodge Charger. It will be an issue to buy, if only for one perspective.
Although some of CU's slants on cars are occasionally goofy, I do commend them for running cars for over 15,000 miles in every possible test to get the best sense of what they are really like.
Green Valley Giant
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Rev. Tom Wenndt wrote:

Yes, it seems to vary a fair bit by type of car and type of driving.

I'd still buy a manual as I simply enjoy shifting and being in more control of the car. Cars are so automatic and boring these days that I need something to do to keep me awake!

I'm a subscriber so it'll be fun to see what they say.

Yes, I agree with about 50% of their conclusions and question some of their test methodologies. I also don't buy their "we aren't biased BS" as that simply isn't true. They may not be biased by advertising, but they are biased by fund raising through other means. The whole issue with the Suzuki roll-over was clearly, IMO, largely contrived by CU to make headlines and help raise money. I've read a number of things over the years about that, including court transcripts and they weren't clean at all on that deal. Not dirty enough for Suzuki to win a suit, but not clean at all either. So, I read their tests, but apply a large dash of salt to their conclusions.
Matt
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Perhaps he doesn't want the V8. Could be any number of reasons why, expense, purchase price, point being, that wasn't his choice.......Doc
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good one =-)

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Mike Marlow wrote:

The interesting thing is that the 4 cylinder engines of today have more power than the 6 cylinder engines had just a few years ago...
Actually, my 4 cylinder Sonata accelerates nearly as hard as my 1970 Plymouth Fury III did and it had a 383 V-8 in it. :-)
Matt
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