Hyundai Genesis: Rear-wheel drive? What!?

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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:


Yes, your approach is communistic, but I don't know if you personally are a communist or not. I've voted in the past for Democrats, but that doesn't make me a member of the Democratic party.

It doesn't benefit people who need or want to drive real trucks and SUVs. The modifications required to make a 3/4 ton pickup get 30 MPG would make it not useful for plowing snow or towing anything bigger than a utility trailer.

Neither do I which is why I save a large percentage of my income and live pretty frugally relative to my income. However, I don't want to subsidize those who chose to live their life beyond their means.

The COLA is the annual increase that all people drawing SS get in their check. You are showing a profound ignorance of the SS system.
Matt
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Steve R. wrote:

Nobody NEEDS a TV, or a private house, or large tracts of land (unless you are a farmer), etc. So you are saying the government should decide what we need and don't need and place us all in small publicly owned apartments, give us a bicycle to ride to work, etc. I think that was tried once or twice already. The outcome wasn't pretty...
Matt
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

You just refuted your own argument. I believe that your claim was that a mandated higher mileage standard would reduce demand and thus reduce the price per gallon of gasoline. Since Europe has much lower demand than the USA, by your logic they should pay LESS for gas than we do rather than more. I think you just shot down your own argument. Don't you just hate it when that happens? :-)
I know a big part of the reason that Europe pays much more for fuel than the USA, and that fact also shoots down your argument.
Matt
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If you know, care to share? You're quick to point out fault, you're not very forthcoming to support with facts?
- Thee Chicago Wolf
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

I just did your homework for you on SS COLA. It is time that you did a little yourself. You are acting like a person on welfare who expects Uncle Sam to take care of you and do everything for you. I hope that isn't the case, but it looks more that way with every post.
Matt
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Truthfully, I never said or used the word "mandated" with respect to a higher mileage standard. I did, however, state that the loophole that exempts trucks should be closed or brought into the 21st century. When the 1978 Energy Tax Act was instituted, SUVs and Hummers weren't on the market nor on anyone's mind. People used trucks for utility most of the time not to drive 2 blocks to get a loaf of bread (and re-fuel probably). Whatever a person wants to buy with their money is their deal. Nothing anyone can say about it. So no, my argument was not self-imploding or self-refuted. Twisting someone's words or re-interpreting them inversely does not stand as well as a good counter argument. Europe is just as dependent on other countries' (Russia) energy and the amount of manipulation they face in THEIR markets is deplorable. To a large extent, they don't have the freedom of market that we Americans enjoy. Again, $3.50 a gallon is nothing to complain about if you compare what they pay per liter. They have smaller cars as a direct result of this. No one in the states drive micros because we're American, we like our cars big. You are also aware of the fact that the large majority of European cars are stick shift and that stick shift is more fuel efficient than automatic? Last I checked, Europe had somewhere in neighborhood of 80+ % stick whereas the US is, again, last I checked, a 90+ % automatic country. Funny that in the car commercials the drivers almost always look as if they are "shifting"...their automatics. Ha! Cheers.
- Thee Chicago Wolf
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

This would constitute a mandated increase in required fuel economy. Do you know what mandate means?

I drive a stick shift. However, if you check you'll find that the difference in fuel economy is now pretty slim. There are many other reasons that Europeans drive standard shift. Europeans also drive a very high percentage of cars with diesel engines as compared to the US.
Matt
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Not from where I sit. The fact is that cars that got in the range of 50 miles per gallon were available decades ago for people who wanted them. They did not use batteries or highly-complex hybrid drivetrains. Thus it is difficult to consider today's hybrids to be a particularly remarkable or useful achievement.
It's hard to judge participants' age in a forum such as this but you sound a little wet behind the ears yet.

It's good enough for me. What anyone else does is their own business. ("New" and "improved" are not necessarily the same thing.)

Adjusted for the rate of overall price increases in other commodities, gasoline is no more expensive today than it was 40 years ago.

Due to limited supply and high prices Europeans have always had smaller cars at least since the end of World War II, even before specific fuel economy standards were developed. (Remember the BMW Isetta?)
Your desire for more government control over our lives is very disconcerting. Perhaps you misunderstand the nature of government as an institution. It is in fact a system of force and plunder, not one of compassion and service, and needs to be kept strictly under control for personal freedom to exist.

Who are you to determine what is a "poor" decision, and to forcibly impose your values on everyone around you?
By the way, we are nowhere near "running out of oil" (a cry I've been hearing for at least 50 years now). Particularly when sources like tar sands are taken into account, there is enough to last for centuries and there are large deposits in North America. No doubt alternative energy sources will ultimately be developed, but the immediate need is to develop new sources of oil and build new refineries, not to find a replacement.

You have not made a convincing case as to why the year is of any relevance.
I prefer a vehicle that is reliable, simple to work on, and easy to maintain. Air bags are not needed (they are merely a supplement to seat belts, and were introduced because people were not buckling up), and antilock brakes etc. are no substitute for driver skill. It is also questionable how well those systems will perform over the long term, as the vehicle gets to be 10, 15, 20 years old or more. If you want those features that's your business, I have no interest in them.

You are the one looking to forcibly impose your values on others. Nowhere have I attempted to "drag the rest" of you anyplace. (Even here at home, the wife prefers a newer car for herself and I don't have a problem with that. On the other hand, my own preference has been to drive the same car for the last 30 years. Having driven both, I prefer my older vehicle.)
You really seem to have a problem with anyone who does not arrange their lives in accordance with what *you* want.

Who are you to dictate what is "waste?"
And not that I have to justify anything to the likes of you, but just for grins go find out how much energy and raw materials are consumed, and waste produced, in the manufacture of a new car. Then calculate how much I have prevented from being "wasted" by not purchasing a new car every few years. (That's not the reason I drive an older car, it's just a side effect.)

No, I do not. Your arguments are specious, frivolous, and without foundation or merit.

That's what the electric car advocates were saying 30-40 years ago. We've been 10 years away from a practical battery for as long as I can remember.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder.

If there is meaningful competition, then yes, consumers control the market. Companies have to build products that consumers want or a competitor will do so instead. This is Economics 101. Detroit found this out the hard way.

The theory of government in this country is completely different than in most other countries. In the European model, the individual is merely a subject of an all-powerful State. In the U.S., the function of government is supposed to be strictly limited to enumerated powers that are delegated to it from the citizens.
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

I'm still waiting for your apology since I posted the data that you claimed I did not have.
Matt
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You must have missed my response from 5/2/2007 @ 7AM.
- Thee Chicago Wolf
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

I see this post which shows as 8 AM, but that is probably due to time zone differences. Is this the one you mean? If so, I don't see anything close to an apology here. Maybe you can point it out.
================================================================== I guess the irony here is that: 1) BOTH are Hybrids, 2) BOTH are front-wheel drive. Those number assume people do 45% HWY driving and 55% city. I don't speak for most people in this group but I'd say my ratio is closer to 75% CITY and 25% HWY. While on paper those numbers may be true, in ideal condition, you know the old saying: "Actual Experience May Vary."
Honda Civic Hybrid: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2005f.jsp?year 07&make=Honda&model=Civic%20Hybrid&hiddenField=Findacar
Toyota Prius: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2005f.jsp?year 07&make=Toyota&model=Prius&hiddenField=Findacar
- Thee Chicago Wolf
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Your facts were wrong, the above links from the same web site point to actual consumer numbers and experience. I don't owe you an apology.
- Thee Chicago Wolf
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

You are really showing how little integrity you have. Here is what you wrote:
"So, I don't mean to feed trolls but if Matt says your car is such a "gas hog" and there are ALL THESE CARS THAT GET OVER 50 MPG...well, Matt, put your money where you mouth is. And be sure to put it with the updated EPA standards as well. he ain't a hypocrite. I think he just reinforced the fact that since you have no evidence to support your claim, you're like a Republican debating a Democrat: all blame and no game."
I showed you data using the updated EPA standards. Now you are changing the rules because I called your bluff. That shows you have no integrity and thus aren't worth further effort to educate. Adios.
Matt
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Matt, you did in fact show me two cars that, according to the EPA, that do in fact get 50 MPG. You are correct. I look at and saw those EPA numbers. Did you follow the links posted by me? It seems you purposely chose to ignore them and didn't even acknowledge them. Why? I didn't change the rules. I thought it was common knowledge that the EPA rating in no way reflects real world performance. I'm sure you know that. Anyone who buys a car knows that what's printed on the sticker is never what the car gets. That's why I supplemented what you showed me from the exact same web site. I felt you were omitting facts, that's all. Why you choose to ignore the same data from exactly the same source is to your convenience, not mine. From the exact same web site, real world customer performance is showing it be under 50 MPG, albeit close. The EPA ratings, while correct and true on paper and according to an ideal driving situations and the percentage of city to highway ratio they specify, could not possible reflect all driving conditions of all drivers. You see the same tiny text printed on the bottom of TV ads for cars: actual result may very. And that is all I am saying.
- Thee Chicago Wolf
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Thee Chicago Wolf wrote:

You claim was that I couldn't produce cars that got 50 MPG according to the new EPA standards. You didn't say anything about "real world" mileage. I consistently match or exceed the EPA ratings for all three of my current vehicles.
Matt
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

Is this all you do for recreation? If I only list three, I'd list camping, cycling and hunting (in my backyard so I don't even have to drive to where I hunt). However, I have more than three and I suspect you do also, but just don't want to list those.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

Of course there are other things I do less frequently, but those are my "big 3", so to speak. There's nothing I do that involves burning fuel other than as transportation. Most of my cycling involves riding from home, so there's no driving involved.
What's your point? Do you have one or are you just trying to insinuate that I'm hiding something (which I'm not)?
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

My point is that you have drawn some self-appointed line in the sand as to what is a gas hog and what isn't. My point is also that your line is no better than mine. You think that 30 MPG constitutes not driving a gas hog and I say the line is 20. My line is just as good as yours.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

Fair enough, but hopefully if/when the gubermint decides to draw a line again, it will be closer to mine than yours. As much as I dislike government interference in my life, if people won't do the right thing on their own, sometimes there's little other choice.
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