Pump in Tank

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Has everyone went to the fuel pump in tank and why?

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Three reasons:
1. Electric pumps don't suck fuel very well, but do a good job pushing it. If they were near the front of the vehicle, there would likely be a difficult priming process if you ever ran out of gas.
2. The fuel in the tank helps keep the pump cool.
3. The tank acts as noise insulation, making the pump less annoying than if it were mounted externally to the tank.
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A fellow I work with never lets his tank get below 1/4 for that reason. He figures the pump will stay cooler and last longer. Any thoughts on that?
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I've heard lots of thoughts on this, but I've seen no data. I personally believe this is an OWT (old wives tale). I believe the pump is cooled by the gas it is pumping (most pumps are designed to have the gas flow through the pump body), not the gas surrounding it. The closest I've seen to data is from a person in another auto newsgroup who claimed to have worked for a fuel pump company and he said this also. The other reason I believe this is that I've never seen a single car maker warn against running below 1/4 tank in any published document (owner's manual, TSB, shop manual, etc.). If anyone has seen such, please send me a reference.
The other reason is simple personal experience. I often run my cars until the fuel is quite low, even occasionally until the low fuel warning light illuminates. I've only had one fuel pump fail and that was in a minivan with 150,000 miles on it. My Chevy truck has been run low often, and even run out three times and it is still going strong after 13 years and 95,000 miles.
It certainly doesn't hurt to refill before 1/4 tank if that makes you feel better, but I personally think it is making extra fuel stops for no good reason.
Matt
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I usually fill more often in the winter. It just means I have a shorter time to stand outside pumping the gas and freezing my ass off. The self service savings myth has taken on quite a life over the years. In MA, some towns do not allow self serve. The stations selling full serve are the same price as the self serves down the street in the next town.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

But it means you stand outside in the cold more often! I tend to fill up more in the winter also, but the reason is that I like to have more gas reserve in case I get stuck or something and have to spend the night in the car.
Matt
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

You can always start the pump, then sit in the car while it fills the tank. It the station is one of the stupid ones that removes the latches from the pump handles, use your gas cap or one of the devices made for holding the pump lever to keep the pump running while you sit in the car. For that matter, you can make one really easily.
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I do that often even in good weather so I can clean the windshield or whatever. Hard to find a pump with a latch these days but there is one I station I use often. The Self Serve pumps also seem to pump slower than the older ones too.
The one Shell station go use has a printed warning on the handle not to leave the pump. The fear is static shock when you get out of the car in winter and cause an arc. I always ground myself getting out anyway. . This was interesting. http://www.pei.org/static /
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Those warnings are for real. Gas fires have happened because of the static discharge upon leaving the vehicle to return the nozzle. First recommendation is to not re-enter the vehicle until you're finished pumping. Second recommendation is to be sure you're discharged prior to returning to the nozzle area.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Preventing fuel spills is also a big concern. If the automatic shut-off fails, a lot of gas can be spilled by the time you realize it when you are on the other side of the car washing windows.
Matt
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And you can get hit by a car crossing the street so wear clean underwear.
Yes, it can happen. Have you ever been to a station on the Jersey Turnpike or the like? Or in a busy city station? One attendant will often be fueling three or four cars at a time. It is a scenario that happens thousands of times a day all over the country. They depend on the automatic shut-off to work. So do I.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

A lot of dumb things get done in NJ. Just remember that in most states you can and will be held liable for the clean-up costs. I hope you have good insurance as that can get pricey.
Matt
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Matt, for the past 45 years I've been driving, I've probably bought fuel over 3000 times. During that time, I've seen tens of thousands of cars filled either by self serve or attendants. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never seen a spill from a defective pump shutoff. This sort of activity has been going on all over the world, tens of thousands of time a day. I suspect it has happened, but not enough that I'm going to change my ways, nor will I worry about the cleanup costs. Just light a match and it will be clean in seconds.
If you ever see me at the pump, just wave and move on because I'm not going to grab the handle just to calm your fears. If they were a serious danger, they would have been eliminated many years ago.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

There was a spill two weeks ago at a station near my home. It was caused by someone sticking the fuel cap in the handle as most self-service stations in PA don't have ratchet piece in the handle to allow the pump to be locked on. I remember wondering (as I read the sign warning consumers of their liability for spills and warning them not to leave the pump unattended while fueling) what the clean-up was going to cost the guy as the station owner put containment "snakes" around the spill and waited for the hazmat folks to arrive.

I wouldn't expect you to from what you've posted already. Some folks don't have a lot of common sense. Fires from static caused by plastic gas jugs and sliding across the seat in your car also rarely happen, but they do happen and it takes little to prevent them. However, many folks just think it won't happen to them.
Matt
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I have to wonder about the details.l If the pump had a ratchet handle, it may have actually prevented the accident. For the system to work properly, the nozzle has to be inserted at least a little ways intot he filler neck. How far, I don't know. If the cap sticker did not properly place the nozzle because of the cap, it may have caused the problem. It may have fallen out of the filler pipe completely. Could be a lot of stupid things. Some people should not be allowed to pump gas under any circumstances.

See, that is where we differ. I have a lot of common sense. If I have to get back in the car, I do ground myself long before reaching the filler area. Common sense will prevent many accidents. Since many people have none, it may be best to have full service again. Some towns in MA and the entire state of NJ forbid SS for that reason.
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wrote in message

caused
to
nozzle
out
This is not a problem of sticking the gas cap in the handle. The pump nozzle is required to sense when fuel is up in the filler neck. That's a defective pump nozzle, not a problem with ratchets or gas caps.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
  Click to see the full signature.
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wrote in message

Actually, I think a better, and more accurate statement, would be that a lot of dumb things get done in every state.
In my late teens and early twenties I was a petroleum distribution engineer here in NJ. I worked at a very busy highway station (not on the NJTP) and we would sometimes have eight cars going on one attendent, with up to 24 cars fueling simultaneously. Not only did we NEVER have a shutoff failure, I never even heard of that happening until you mentioned it above. I would have to say that it is damn near impossible. But I am sure it has probably happened somewhere. And didn't someone get killed recently by falling debris from an airplane? I would think that might be more likely than a spill from a failed fuel cut-off.
Eric
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4.......much more expensive to replace ! Is a shaft driven mechanical pump obsolete ? Why ? They can't rob that much power, can they?

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I recall replacing a few of those old mechancial pumps. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've yet to replace an in tank electric.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I agree that electric pumps are more reliable. I've replaced one in 30+ years of driving and I typically drive my cars over 150K miles. The one I replaced was in a '79 Saab and it was a known problem with the pumps they used.
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