Somewhat OT

BS. The vehicle must be programmed to recognize the fobs.

Call your local GM dealer with the vin and ask them to check whether it even has keyless entry. Some GM fleet vehicles don't have keyless.

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Um.... it's the top-of-the-line model; it even as a built in tire inflater, DVD player, etc. It certainly has keyless entry. The only possible reason it might not is if fleet buyers can buy custom stripped versions but it would seem that it would be more costly to remove it than just leave it.

Re programming, I'm reading all over the web about SELF programming FOBs in as little as 5 minutes if you have the procedure. The other thing I read is that many locksmiths will do the reprogramming at a small fraction of a dealer's hourly minimum charge of nominally $70 to $90!

Here's just one example of the many I've seen. BTW, someone posted a similar procedure here for a Hyundai -- 2000-2002 era IIRC. So when a 99.7% positive Ebay powerseller refers to self programmability for a specific FOB, I have to believe that that he's not selling snake oil : )

VW/AUDI Remote Control Programming (1997 ON)

Procedure

1. Switch Ignition ON and leave the key in the ignition.

1. Mechanically lock the vehicle using the Drivers door using a second key.

2. Using the remote control press the Unlock button once, and the horn will sound once.

1. Wait 6 seconds and press the unlock button once to activate the coding procedure. The remote control will now be programmed.

NOTE : When performing programming on additional remotes the procedure is the same, except you press the unlock button 2, 3 or 4 times for the different remote.

For example : If programming 2 remotes press the unlock button twice with a 1 second interval between each press, repeat for 3 and 4 remotes.

1. Switch Ignition OFF.

1. Remove key from ignition and check for operation.

2. The coding procedure can be repeated up to 4 times for additional remotes.

1. The ignition must be switched OFF between programming each remote control.

If you were so very sure of the answer, why did you even post your question. By your tone, it sounds like you were offended by HT's answer.............

I didn't mean to come across that way --- really. I have great respect for him. I guess the "BS" part he started his response with unfortunately set a tone which I'm sure he didn't mean. My point was that I'm reading examples like the one I posted and was wondering if anyone here had experienced or heard of similar examples. It also doesn't help that most (all?) dealers are ripping people off for simple programming IMHO -- unless I'm missing something big here.

HT, please accept my apology. I look forward to seeing you moniker in the "From" field!

I would imagine that the BS was meant for the dealers who, as you've discovered, are great at BS'ing the customers. Last week I had my Kia Sedona back at the dealer's because my tires that they put on my car were STILL causing a low speed wobble in the entire car. Their answer was that the front end alignment was 'too good' and caused the problem. Now there is BS!!! They said that the tires looked fine even though I jacked it up and spun all four wheels and could visually see they are out of round when I got home. Since the car has 'tires for life', I'm screwed unless I want to pay for the tires myself.

Well, I'm lucky to have a "Platinum" Hyundai Mechanic who knows his stuff and is a straight shooter. If not for him I avoid the dealer as much as possible. They're good people but their scheduling and prices need improvement. Example: on a Tuesday I took my Sonata in for an oil change. The pleasant lady asked when I'd like it done (I'm thinking NOW). I told her as soon as she could fit me in. After studying her schedule she responds "Saturday." !!! That's 4+ days out. Asked her if she couldn't do it earlier and she apologized that they were all booked up. Now this is in a small retirement community 20 some miles south of Tucson. When I got home I decided I was going to look up the owner on the web and share my experience thinking that he had a problem to fix. Couldn't find an address for him BUT I found that I could schedule my oil change on line! The next available time was only 90 minutes away. But by then I had had it done elsewhere. They definitely have a management problem. Will see next time around.

And this is a BIG automotive operation -- 8 vehicle lines and more stores.

"631grant" wrote in message news:PB4nj.81894$L% snipped-for-privacy@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

Sir, what does "tires for life" mean? I can't for the life of me, figure out what it even possibly might mean?

I only say that because, with a problem like that, I am never willing to allow myself to just be ... well, you know what word you used.

Because for everyone out there that treats me like that, is someone else down the street who is competent, professional, knowledgeable, and most importantly, WANTS my business, and will do what he has to do to get it.

I'm not sure if you are using a play on words, Rev. If you are, I also thought that maybe 'for life' might not be worth it to accept sub-par tires. When we bought the car, part of the deal was to get new tires whenever they were worn down. Of course, the quality of tires they put on is entirely up to their discretion. They put on the original equipment tires, which were probably 'take offs' from someone who wanted to upgrade their tires when purchasing a new car. It is a common sales gimmick around here right now but the downside is, as I said, you get whatever they want to put on. I won't let that be a sales gotcha next time. Unfortunately, it is a local dealer gimmick and not one offered by Kia or Hyundai so you can't complain to anyone but that particular dealer.

Sorry if I came across abrasive. The BS is the idea that they're already programmed. That's not possible, since the remote and the vehicle must be in the same location for the programming to take place. The idea of programming remotes is something of a misnomer. Actually, the vehicle is programmed to recognize the specific remotes you have.

As to whether you'll need to have the dealer do the programming, I don't know for certain. To my knowledge, a Tech2 (GM scan tool) is necessary to do the programming. But, if you go back far enough (and this may even be what you referenced), you'll see that someone pointed out a procedure (for the 2001-2003 Elantra, I believe) that I was unaware of.

On most newer GM vehicles, the difference between keyless and no keyless is a little bit of wiring and a relay. The Body Control Module is generic and can be set up with a Tech 2 for a vehicle with or without keyless entry. I agree, it seems silly and not cost effective to produce the vehicles without keyless, but I know it's done. On the other hand, I've never seen one with the level of options you describe.

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Yep, BS. I must say, though, "alignment too good" is one I haven't heard before.

"Their answer was that the front end alignment was 'too good' and caused the problem. Now there is BS!!! They said that the tires looked fine even though I jacked it up and spun all four wheels and could visually see they are out of round when I got home."

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Same here. I was a bit pissed at the dealership when I found out they didn't include the fobs -- and only a single key. No mention of any of this was made before I had paid for the vehicle and was getting ready to leave with it. So I guess I was loaded for bear at the time : )

There are three different possibilities the Ebay powerseller is promising:

1) "a procedure" as noted; 2) a list of keysmiths who perform such programming and 3) nothing. #3 is unlikely based on his user feedback and his 99.7% satisfaction rating. I'm leaning toward #1 BUT I've read some places that it doesn't fully program the fob -- just the basic "lock/unlock". In my case there are two power sliding doors and the security system which I'd dearly like programmed. I refer to the security function as the "parking lot vehicle locator" since that's 99% of the use I get from it : )

After cooling down, I've decided to try to force them to provide a pair of programmed fobs (and remote and wireless headphones for the DVD player) since I discovered it was buried deep in their on line ad along with a Navigation system. I have to take it back in anyway (80 mile round trip) to have a rear bushing replaced and some other trivial work.

The bright side of hassles like this one is that you end up learning a lot that will help in the future : )

Cheers

Hey Don,

Most of the better EBay sellers are very willing to answer questions. Just e-mail him and ask him what's required to make the car work with his fob.

Good luck,,, -

Bob

Hi Bob,

I've sent them two "User questions" since you can't send email to a seller or buyer for that matter. They haven't responded to either.

But that's fine 'cuz I won my case with the dealer.

My situation was this. After I had paid for this van the salesman gave me one key with no fobs. He told me this is how they sold fleet cars.

After cooling down, I decided I was going to get my fobs and the second key. So I studied all my paper work and researched what was standard equipment on this loaded vehicle. I was going to make a negotiating list to help me in bargaining for the fobs. Told the salesman I wanted to meet with the sales manager if he was unable to resolve these issues.

My want list:

1) Two fobs and one more key 2) Cargo net 3) Two wireless headphone sets 4) Remote for the DVD player 5) Replace the rear axle bushings (noisy axle on bumps) 6) Navigation system (This actually wasn't standard but their literature described the ON-STAR system as such.)

We met today and happily the sales manager agreed with me on everything except the navigation system : ) They even gave me a free loaner since they couldn't complete the work today.

I came away extremely impressed with this dealership and the feeling the salesman was in deep dodo.

BTW, the service rep told me he could program two fobs like this (snapped his finger)

So I'm a happy camper -- found a class A dealership and, thank God, didn't buy the fobs off Ebay.