synthetic oil for 06 Sonata V-6

I agree. I've looked at several sources of information, mostly on the web as I can't find it elsewhere. Supertech is consistently substandard as are the standard Fram filters and many other brands.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting
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It likely changes year to year as Wal-Mart shops for the best price.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Yes, I do make that assumption knowing a little about Wal-Marts business practices.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

I don't think Deere makes their own mowers, do they? Neither does Troy Built, Craftsman, Huskvarna, or Poulan AFAICT. They buy them from one of the big manufacturers. I think "Yard Machines" is a main one, and another company(? Maybe Electrolux?) is another big one.

Reply to
Bob Adkins

Last I knew Deere made most of their mowers. The engine in mine is a Kawasaki, which I considered a plus after owning three Kawasaki motorcycles. Consumer reports had an article on mowers some time ago and talked about who made which mowers. I wasn't thinking John Deere bought from one of the mower mills, but maybe that has changed for their low-end machines like those sold at Home Depot. I didn't buy one of those. :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

You know what they say about assuming...

It's popular to bash Walmart these days and some of it is deserved, but the truth is that they sell a lot of high quality products. Supertech oil is API certified and it comes from the same source as other brand name oils. The analysis I've seen of it indicates that's it equivalent quality to other brands. Considering that it's a synthetic, it's virtually guaranteed to be superior in protection to the dino oil that is good enough for Hyundai.

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

Excellent point!

Once upon a time when we all had dark hair, there was a wide difference in oil quality. Some was pretty good, some was bilge sludge.

Now, I bet there's VERY LITTLE difference from the best to the worst. Almost imperceptible! Certainly not enough to get our shorts in a wad about.

This is the result of STANDARDS. SAE used to rule the roost, and their standards metrics were primitive.

Now,,, there are several standards testing bodies in the fray, and the oil bottlers must comply or die. We win! :)

Reply to
Bob Adkins

We're not talking about ideology. Just oil. Oil has no business model, no employees, and no politics. It just sits there and does its job without complaint.

Hey, oil has it pretty good! :)

Reply to
Bob Adkins

I've heard chatter that the V6 was designed for 300K miles. The 300K was (allegedly) specified by Daimler-Chrysler, who will (Again, allegedly!) be using some Hyundai engines in their cars.

God forbid my engine lasts that long. I want it to die at 10 years of 150K, whichever comes first. I don't want a beat-up old geriatric car in my garage that runs like new, because how do you justify a new one?

Reply to
Bob Adkins

My assumption is made on knowing a little bit about Wally World.

Yes, I would agree that cheap synthetic is better than even high quality dino oil, but again that assumes that the cheap synthetic is passing at last basic quality control tests. If metal filings from a refinery problem get out due to poor QA, then your in trouble synthetic or not.

I'm not nearly as worried about the "normal" batch of cheap oil as I am the batch that gets through the poorer QA system of generic suppliers. And this just an oil issue, it is true with many generic products, especially those without some independent oversight such as FDA, etc.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Sorry, but I've seen test data (from the source I've mentioned here several times before - MCN) that shows the above statement to be patently false. There was a wide range of data in virtually every parameter of the oil that was tested.

Some oils have far better additive packages than others, and the correlation wasn't perfect with price and brand name, but it was significantly correlated.

Standards in most cases provide only a minimum (or ocasionally a maximum to prevent catcon poisoning) requirement. They don't ensure equality at all. The Air Force has a minium height standard for its pilots (and a maximum as well). Do you you really think this standard means that all pilots in the Air Force are the same height?

Ha, ha, ha. This is funnny.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

I'd suggest then that you use the cheapest oil (Supertech Dino is probably it) and oil filters you can find. Actually, the best way to solve your problem is to never change the oil at all!! :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Once again, you're conconcting hypothetical, non-existent problems in an effort to scare people into siding with you. What's with this nonsense? What drives you to simply make things up?

So I guess the INDUSTRY STANDARD API certification isn't enough for you? What the heck do you want?

We're talking about oil that comes from a source that produces oils for name brand companies that you seem to think are just fine. It's the same product with different labels. You can make up all kinds of preposterous, hypothetical problems, but you can't change the facts. If you want to be paranoid and spending more money makes you feel more secure, do whatever you want. But this fear-mongering of yours is nothing but an attempt to project your insecurties on others; it has nothing to do with the quality of the products we're discussing. Either that, or you're just so desperate for your viewpoint to prevail in this discussion that you'll say anything.

If you want to do some actual research into the products, this API site is a good place to start:

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You can look up anything you want to know about oils, certification standards, licencees and more.

If you enter "super tech" in the "Brand Name Contains" box and do a search, you'll see that most Super Tech oils are certified API SM, the highest current rating, and all other Super Tech motor oils are certified API SL (for 2004 and older cars). Here's a guide to what the API certifications mean:

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If you look at their recommendations, you'll notice that they're strikingly similar to what Hyundai recommends for their engines.

Like I said, do whatever you want, but lets cut through all the crap, OK?

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

Matt - you've been making some pretty big assumptions about QA throughout this thread. Where is the breakdown in QA in your mind? It's refined in the same plants. The distinction comes more at the packaging end of things. Sure - there is potential for problems at every step but those problems exist for everyone. Do you really believe that Mobil or any other supplier has a QA process that is so unique and so different from what Wal Mart or any other private label similar to Wal Mart has? I really doubt it. There just isn't that much room in the supply chain as it exists, for huge disparities in QA like you're suggesting. Besides - you've not documented any reason to believe that there even is a QA difference, so why do you keep mentioning the QA point? At some point, this kind of thing becomes what we call FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Most times, totally unfounded and only intended to smear a competitor or a product when no valid evidence exists.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Now that's a significant statement Matt - if it can be substantiated and qualified. Can you share what kind of data you saw? What were the parameters that differed and made that impression on you? How did those parameters compare to standards? In other words - what were the specifics? Is the data you saw available for review?

Standards do ensure that a product is indeed safe and proper for use - as contrasted to arbitrary statements that "something may not be right". Not to insult you but I'll accept standards certification long before I'll accept your arguement that QA *may* not be up to snuff in the absense of any evidence.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Again, that's a relic of the 1950's. Ain't gonna happen!

Even if it did happen, no oil bottler is immune to accidents.

Reply to
Bob Adkins

Mike, I'm going to have to call you out on that one.

Since you seem to be calling me a liar, I'm asking you to show your data. Not only what, but more importantly WHEN the testing was done. Pre historic data doesn't count!

Oil is blended in modern plants, with state-of-the art equipment, all computer controlled. There are many controls and check points, and everything is recorded in logs. It's been that way for 20 years. It's a very "settled" technology. If the button pusher or computer should glitch while one brand is being bottled, that brand could possibly have some defective bottles. One brand is just as likely to be defective as the others. The color of the bottle has no bearing on anything.

Even if there is a breakdown of some kind, I bet buzzers and lights go off all over the place, and the suspect bottles are rounded up and dumped into the waste oil bin for re-processing. (or more likely, just dumped into Mobil-1 bottles).

Reply to
Bob Adkins

Oh boy, here we go again. Where's this data? EXACTLY how much of a difference? What are the FUNCTIONAL differences?

I provided you with oil analysis data for Super Tech Full Synthetic

5W-30. Do you have anthing to refute the conclusions therein? Do you have any data showing that any other oil is demonstrably superior in any way? You can keep making vague references to an old motorcycle magazine article if you wish, but that's not good enough. It's time to either put up or shut up.

Define "far better". What does that nebulous term mean in the real world? How much of a difference in lubrication are we talking about during a typical oil change interval? Is there even ANY AT ALL?

It's convenient to throw around meaningless terms with nothing to back them up or provide any context. The bottom line is that you simply don't know, but you're not going to let that prevent you from making unfounded claims. You read one article that's what, six years old, and that's aparently become gospel for you. When you look at it that way, it seems pretty ridiculous, doesn't it?

Again, a pointless attempt to confuse the issue with a specious argument.

If the SAE minimum standards exceed the requirements of engine manufacturers - WHICH THEY CLEARLY DO - how can that possibly be a problem? It can't be, except apparently in YOUR mind.

BTW, I'm a Quality Assurance Engineer, so you're really barking up the wrong tree when you try to make such ridiculous claims.

The SAE has continuously raised its standards, which has resulted in continuous improvements in oil quality. Does that mean all oils are the same? Of course not, but the more you raise the standard, the smaller the differences become, since the upper limit isn't changing much, if at all. When you get right down to it, there hasn't been a truly significant development in motor oils since the introduction of synthetics. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a poor-quality, API certified oil.

Speaking of synthetics, if natural oils are sufficient to meet the needs of the engine(s) - WHICH THEY ARE ACCORDING TO HYUNDAI - synthetics, which are demonstrably superior, are already a classic case of "exceeding the need". What possible REAL-WORLD difference could it make if one synthetic is fractionally "better" than another?

The truth is that unless you're trying to push an oil to the limits of its life by abusing your engine (racing) or extending your change intervals to 10K, 15K or more miles, it doesn't make any difference what oil you use. As long as you use an API SL/SM certified oil and change it at Hyundai's suggested intervals, there is not likely to be any difference in normal driving. If you don't want to believe that, it's your perogative, but your personal paranoia doesn't change anything. Perhaps you just find all the brand-name hype and bluster comforting, but the truth is that it's just noise, as are your arguments.

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

You neglected to say "best product". Wal-Mart is always looking for the best products at the best prices. I would be disappointed if they didn't shop around for something better and cheaper.

Reply to
Bob Adkins

Like you are trying to convince people that they can just buy the cheapest products out there and have equivalence to better products? What do you have against quality products and brand names?

What drives you to make up claims that all oils are created equal?

A standard isn't quality control. Don't you know the difference?

Show one piece of evidence that they are all the same exact products with only different labels.

Yes, I know that oil producers have to pay to use the API symbol and have to "certify" that their products meet the API standards, with the threat of occasional spot checking by the API. Again, standards at best give some assurance that a product meets a miniumum performance level, but it certainly doesn't preclude a company from radically exceeding those levels.

Most cars meet the government's minimum crash standards. Do you really now believe that all cars are equally crashworthy? After all, they meet the standard so they must all be equal, right?

Yes, I wish you would learn what standards mean. Hint: they don't mean that all products tested against the standard are equal.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

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