Yes, I do believe that. I've worked for 23 years in a Fortune 500 corporation and I know a lot of things I can't say in public that would very much surprise you about a lot of products you use every day.
Sure there is. Many people will sacrifice a lot of quality to get a cheap price. Many people won't. There is room for all, but to claim that all products are created equal is simply absurd. Do you really believe that Bose stereo products are no better than the no-name brands from China?
difference, so why do you keep
And you've not documented that there isn't a difference.
and Doubt. Most times, > Totally unfounded and only intended to smear a competitor or a product when no valid evidence exists.
The key word is most times, and it isn't even most, more like some.
It isn't a vague reference, I gave you a direct reference to its location. I don't have the data, well I might have, but I don't think I have MCN issues back to the 2001 or so timeframe when their last test was published. And if I did, I wouldn't violate copyright law by publishing it here.
Since you don't want to really see probably the most comprehensive COMPARISON data out there (I've certainly never seen anything like it from any other source), then I guess you should hang it up.
Buy the article. Read it.
Yes, it seems pretty ridiculous to be unwilling to obtain the data. It is much easier to just claim it doesn't exist.
It is the only comparison I've ever found among many different oils. I don't recall the details, but I believe they had upwards of 20 different brands tested. If you know of a more recent or more comprehensive comparison, I'm all ears. I'll even pay to buy it if you give me the reference.
It certainly isn't obvious that you are. I'm guessing that you work for either Wal-Mart or the folks that bottle Supertech, right? I should have made that connection earlier.
How do you know where the upper limit is? Back before the advent of synthetics, people making dino oils couldn't even imagine the performance capability of synthetics. Who knows what the next revolution in lubrication might be? Must be you do, so can you tell us what the upper limits are?
Funny, I was thinking the same things about yours...
That is the best laugh I've had all day. What does virtually every Wal-Mart ad say? What is their slogan? Hint: it doesn't mention quality or even better, let alone best.
"The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: ?quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author's observations;...."
I never said that; you just made that up, too. You really need to get a grip.
As a Quality Assurance Engineer, I know exactly what the difference is. Without a standard, you can't have Quality Control, as there is nothing to measure quality against. The purpose of QC is to ensure that a product meets the required standard.
It's convenient for you to call into question the quality of products that you want to denegrate, but the truth is that you know nothing about their QC procedures. I sent you test data that shows that Super Tech oil is a good product, but I guess you don't want to let facts interfere with your opinions. You make nebulous accusations of inferior quality with no evidence that it's actually the case. Is that the best you can do?
Show me one piece of evidence that they're not? I've given you the information you need for comparison, so get off your butt and check it out. You rag on me and others here about not producing any data, but all you've done is cite one lame old article in a motorcycle magazine that no one else here has seen. Where's the beef, Matt?
Here we go again with the ridiculous hyperbole. What exactly is "radically exceeding"? Exactly how much difference do you think there can be in oils when the API standards are so high. In a previous discussion, you acknowledged that the differences are minuscule at best. Have you suddenly changed your mind?
No, I never said anything of the sort. How many more stupid statements like this do you plan to make up, Matt? You're not helping your case by continually doing this, as nobody is buying it.
That's three times in one post that you've made the same assinine statement. All you've done is try to put words in my mouth, but I'm not about to let you get away with doing that. How about some substance, Matt?
True, so what's your point? Do you have EVEN ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that Warren Oil doesn't have outstanding QC? In case you can't bring yourself to let the word past your lips, I'll help you. The answer is "no".
If I had the original article, I'd have to quote a substantial portion of it to convince you or Brian. That would hardly constitute a "short passage." As best I recall, the article was very long and took two or three issues of the magazine to contain it all. I wouldn't type in that much information even if I had it and it was legal, not to save you a few bucks because you are too cheap to buy a legitimate copy.
Why don't you scan it and send it to us? I sent you the data I had. I doubt that MCN is going to get worked up over a six-year-old article being sent to a handful of people.
Hmmm, I suppose I could take a page out of your book and insinuate that you MUST have something to hide, since you haven't produced the goods. You MUST have gone back and re-read the article and figured out that you were wrong. Yeah, that MUST be it!
See, it's easy to make up crap. How about producing some evidence, Matt?
A father used to say to his teenage son: Take good care of her son, and use nothing but Esso Extra and Uniflow motor oil, and she'll last you 90,000 miles!
Now the single dad says: Dude! Take good care of your whip, m'k? Make sure to use the right octane gas, and use oil with the right SAE service rating, m'k? Dude! If you don't get T-boned and shit, that car will last you
300,000 miles!
It boils down to this Matt: We used to rely on our favorite trusted brands to promise us that the product in the bottle was good. Now, we are more sophisticated, and can judge for ourselves. The governing and testing bodies stamp the rating on the bottle, and all we have to do is educate ourselves a little and read the label.
Truth be told? I rather it the old way. But that's life, dude.
The article he's referring to is from 2000. It's in a motorcycle magazine, which alone is enough to cast doubts about how relevent it is to an automobile discussion.
And Consumer Reports sure wastes a lot of money testing products. Now that Mr. Supertech has educated us that all products that meet a standard are equal in "the real world" and don't have differences that matter, I can drop my subscription and just buy the cheapest product I can find at Wal-Mart and know that I'm getting good stuff. :-)
Being a retired QA/QC manager that fought the good fight for 35 years, yes, I know about the last line of defense. In today's plants, there are redundant checks, balances, and super-reliable instrumentation to prevent those little accidents from getting out of the shop. I believe bottlers are just too sophisticated for that to happen except on rare, freakish occurrences.
Bob, who'd you work for? Did you work for multiple companies or just one? I work for a large company that has a reputation for high quality products. I've friends who have come from a range of other companies and it is amazing at the disparity among companies with respect to their quality orientation.
Certainly this isn't true across the board, but for the most part the "name brand" companies that have THEIR name on the product take quality manufacturing and QA/QC more seriously. Since adopting TQM and Six Sigma practices a couple of decades ago, we actually try to avoid having to do QC! No offense. :-)
It is almost always better to design (and manufacture) quality in than to try to inspect it out, as I'm sure you well know. However, you need some inspection as a process feedback mechanism if not a strict QC mechanism.
Nice try Matt, but that's not going to cut it. Either post the info or send it to me. I'm not going to spend my money on an outdated article in a motorcyle magazine just to refute your ridiculous claims. If you're so invested in one friggin' magazine article, it's incumbent on YOU to produce it.
I also find it pretty amazing that you can't even recall when the article was or whether you have it, but you know for sure that it showed huge differences between oils. Funny stuff, Matt.
You send it to me and I'll read it.
Who said that? There you go making things up again, Matt. You seem to have a REAL problem with that.
Why don't you buy a copy of the article that you keep eluding to and share it with us?
Is there something more current? Perhaps, but I have no idea and never claimed to. Whether there is or not is irrelevent to whether your claims have any validity. All you've done is make unfounded statements and insinutations. That's not evidence or data, Matt.
It would be if you had the slightest clue as to what it means or what quality is.
So now you're concocting conspiracy theories? Do you ever live in the real world?
For the record, I have nothing to do with the petroleum industry or the retail industry or any company that has anything to do with this discussion.
Wait a minute, I get it. YOU work for Mobile, don't you??? That MUST BE IT!!!
Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it, Matt? Just like your comment above.
Yet another specious argument. Imagine that?
There are limits to current technology. That doesn't mean that there won't be a breakthrough in the future comparable to the introduction of synthetic oils, but it's not available today. Modern oils are mature products; they've been researched and developed thoroughly. The differences between them are tiny, as there's simply no place to go within the limits of current technology. Any changes in the past decade or two have been at best incremental and at worst, nothing but marketing hype.
Well, I'm not the one continually shooting myself in the foot by making things up. To quote Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does."
Nice try, I knew you wouldn't read the official copyright office page.
at the government source
"Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work."
Hmm . . . I believe the original queston was regarding synthetic oil for the Sonata V6, not some debating match on the technicalities of "everything pertaining to oil QC and pricing." Just purchase a case of Mobil 1 5W-30, and be done with it. I just paid $4.49 per quart this evening, either single quarts or case quantities. I think all of us have far too much time on our hands!
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