What to do to a new Elantra?

I just knew there was another great mind out there Wayne. Us great thinkers have to stick together...

Mike, you explained my point better than I did. This is exactly what I meant. I have yet to find a reference to support this, but I did find one that supports my earlier assertion that most engineers prefer properly lubricated fasteners rather than dry fasteners as the variability in bolt tension achieved is less. Maybe others disagree, but even with their problems, I still consider NASA a pretty reputable source with respect to things technical. Look at page 3-6 and note that the variability is reduced substantially with lubricated vs. dry fasteners.

Matt

snebulos.mit.edu/projects/reference/NASA-Generic/NSTS_08307_RevA.pdf

Yes, very true. However, it is pretty widely accepted in the engineering community that threads with rust, spalling, or other surface damage will not achieve a reliable amount of tension when torque is used as the sole measure of fastener tension. Using a lubricant lessens the chance of such thread damage as does my practice of using grease to keep road salt and moisture off of my lug studs.

Obviously, the average garage and motorist can't be counted on to properly lubricate lug stud threads, therefore the auto makers provide "clean and dry" torque values and just accept the risk of thread damage over time.

If I lived in an arid region, then I would not use any thread protection at all as it would be unnecessary. In PA and NY where road salt is heavily used for at least 4 months of the year, exposed lug stud threads simply will not survive many years without some protection. I tend to keep my vehicles a long time (my K1500 pickup is a 1994 and thus 14 years old), and you simply can't keep the threads "clean and dry" in my area without some form of protection applied to them. My Chevy has pretty tight fitting plastic center covers in the allow wheels and these keep the studs pretty clean, but they still get moisture from condensation if nothing else. A little grease used properly keeps the studs like new even after 14 years, 100,000+ miles and at least 10 tire rotations, plus 14 wheel removals for annual state inspections. I've seen cars that are half the age of my truck and have lug studs where the threads are virtually rust away on the first 1/8" of so of the stud and the damage often extends past where the threads enter the lug nuts.

Matt

I don't mind offering advice when I have advice to offer. I believe I do with respect to the original question about what steps to take to ensure that fasteners on a car don't rust in place.

Sure. When I see someone who claims to be an engineer, I like to know they are legitimate and I tend to look them up to be sure. I was not able to find your name listed so I was simply confirming.

Also, when I find an educated person that can't spell a simple word like license, it makes me suspicious also. However, I found that even this web site prominently misspells the word in one of its headers! :-)

Do they have an online license verification registry? Most US states now provide this service, but I haven't found a site yet for provinces in Canada.

Regards, Matt

Reply to message from Matt Whiting (Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:

26:08) about "Re: Torquing lug nuts":

MW> Also, when I find an educated person that can't spell a simple word MW> like license, it makes me suspicious also.

What about grammar? In your sentence above the word preceding "... can't spell..." should be "who". ;-)

It so happens that I sort of agree with you but one has to qualify 'educated'. Any experienced engineer to whom things like this matter would tell you that engineers, despite their level of education, are poor spellers, poor in grammar and even poor communicators. Thus we may be flogging a dead horse on this issue.

Suffice it to say that I was writing my reply on a pocket PC using handwriting recognition software to translate my cursive hand in to text. So I think I can be forgiven my spelling error. AAMOF I am presently replying on the same platform.

Besides I was raised and educated using British English spelling as opposed to (American English) so you may find other words to pick on from time to time.

MW>

imm_incanada_1.cfm >> I will answer the second - New Brunswick and Ontario.

Try

and while you are at it you may want to visit the SNAME website. As a naval architect I am a member of that institution. http://sname org

Best Regards Wayne Moses Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:14:08 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3

Hi, I drive 2005 tiburon. I live in NY. What kind of grease do you use on the studs to protect them? or is any kind of grease fine? what exactly do you guys mean buy dry and clean? I've read that the lugs should be torqued to 80ft/lbs. I've been doing this and have had no problems. Torque the lugs often will lead to damage? Thats not good seeing as how i want to rotate my tires every 3,000 miles to help them last longer then 12,000 miles.

-- Message posted using

information at

I use either wheel bearing grease or plain old Vaseline. Be clear in that I apply the grease only to the exposed part of the stud AFTER the lug nut has been torqued properly.

Clean and dry means just that. Use a solvent to wipe down the lug stud (brake cleaner works quite well for this) and then let it dry before you torque the lug nuts. Now, I personally don't do this, but then I've torqued fasteners for 35 years and I've got a pretty good feel for what is enough so I don't worry about a little residual grease on the threads.

However, I would not recommend that anyone else do anything other than follow the manufacturer's recommendations and they pretty much always specify dry torque values for lug nuts. I think that is nuts, but that is another story entirely...

Matt

I had my car at a tire shop recently. I specifically requested that they torque the lug nuts by hand and a torque wrench rather than the air wrench. They complied but acted as if this was a very unusual request.

Old_Timer

You only get 12k out of a set of tires? Do you get many traffic tickets?

The guys at the local tire shope tell me you can't get a tire to fit my wheels (17''x7.5'') that will last longer then 12,000 - 15,000 miles. And from my experience, that is true. My father has a chrysler 300 with 18'' wheels and his tires lasted about 14,000 so there must be something to it.

Matt, the lug nut sits pretty tight agains the wheel, but the studs could be exposed behind the wheel? Is that where you use the vasaline? Is it worth doing in the summer months as well?

-- Message posted using

information at

There is no way I know of to get behind the wheel and that generally isn't a big problem in any event. If your lug stud is about flush with the nut, then I'd just smear a thin film over the end of the stud and the groove where the threads start so that water can't follow the threads.

No, probably not necessary in the summer unless you live in a very humid area or near the ocean.

Matt

Hello paxfaux,

p> The guys at the local tire shope tell me you can't get a tire to fit p> my wheels (17''x7.5'') that will last longer then 12,000 - 15,000 p> miles. And from my experience, that is true.

???!

I have a Tiburon that has 17" x 7.5" wheels (I believe) and it has the factory

215 x 45 x 17 Michelins on it. The car has over 23,000 miles on it and the tires have a ways to go yet before they wear out. I don't normally peel my tires but I corner pretty aggressively from time to time. I also rotate them every 7500 miles or so. I expect to get at least 30,000 from them if not more.

So the guys at the tire shop are wrong.

Regards, Wayne Moses Houston, Texas

If you say so. I had the Pilots on for at least 22,000 myself but they should have been changed long before that. by the time i changed them they were almost down to the steel. You can say they are wrong but the tires still ware out by 15,000. I'm talking about the penny test, there is still plenty of visible tread at 15,000 but its still time for new tires. I don't "peel out" either.

-- Message posted using

information at

The 18" Bridgestones on my 07 Santa Fe now have 16K miles on them and show very little wear. I usually get at least 50K miles from a set of tires. Maybe the roads you drive on are paved with broken glass or else you burn rubber at every start.

Heh, good one.

FWIW, I use "licence" as a noun, and "license" as a verb...but then, I speak Early American, too. Oxford who?