Wheels/Snow Tires

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I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra) steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? Also, does
anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them and I'm not familiar with any other source. I have about 32k on the original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks.
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Junk yard.
I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they completely suck. I fully agree with the concept of dedicated snow tires and rims. IMHO, the cost is is reasonable and you will have much better traction in the winter. I live further south now and do not swap out but I do keep a set of cables/chains in the trunk of my 2003 Elantra just in case. They take about 10 minutes to install. I only use them roughly once or twice a year but well worth the ~$25 that Wal-mart sells them for..
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Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a snow tire in decades.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter tires is night and day.
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We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving.
I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving conditions without them.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a big difference.
How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter tires.
The fact that most people get by in winter with "all season" junk on their cars doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate the difference that dedicated winter tires make. In fact, everyone I've convinced to try real winter tires has been amazed at the difference.
The reason that they're not more popular are obvious:
- Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for winter conditions.
- Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them.
- Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars on unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles when they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower initial cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure.
- Many parts of the country don't get enough snow to justify separate winter tires.
By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect me to agree with you.
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You forgot to add "the roads are plowed much better and faster now than they were years ago"
While you both make good points, I've not had a situation personally where a better tire would have made a big difference. Maybe I'm just lucky. If I lived on a more rural road, had a 2000 foot unplowed, rut filled, dirt driveway, then yes, I've have a better winter tire. I live on a hill and pull out of my driveway and make a left turn up the hill. In 25 years, I've never gotten stuck, slid, or did not make it. I did have the traction control kick in a couple of times That 500 feet is usually the worst part of my commute.
Years ago, it was common to drive with snow tires and even chains over them at times. In some parts of the country, it is still needed.

Some people should not drive if a snowflake falls no matter what tires they have. Going to work in the snow one day, I rounded a curve and saw a car that was being towed out from the side where the woman slid off the road. Evidently, it was a gentle slide and no damage was done because on the way home, there she was again, on a different stretch of road where she slid off again. Given that thousands of cars passed that same road all day and only one managed to slide off (twice), you just have to wonder.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

That's true. The roads around here (NH) are generally only a mess during and immediately after storms. Cross the border into the People's Republic of Massachusetts and it's a different story. ;-)

That's really not the point. The difference in traction and control in even moderate amounts of snow/slush/ice is substantial. Obviously, it's not mandatory to have winter tires, but they really do help.

The last time I got "stuck" was many years ago and it was during the heaviest storm I've ever seen. Snow was falling at 4" per hour! I got bogged down in ~20" of snow when I pulled off into a side road near my house so I could get out, walk home and clear the driveway. It took me all of five minutes to kick enough snow away from car to get moving again, so I don't know if "stuck" is even the right term.

Yeah, times have changed, though I don't recall ever owning tire chains.

I hear ya! In the past few years I've noticed an increase in the number of cars I see off the side of the road on their roofs. These are cars, mind you, not SUVs as one might expect. In many cases, it's not at all clear how it happened. It seems that as cars get more sophisticated, drivers rely more on technology and less on skill, largely because they're told they can. Unfortunately, that technology often lets them down when they need it most. Then again, some people should just never be given a driver's license at all...
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Yeahbut the real problem in the great state of oblivion is the drivers, not the driving conditions. Volvo's ought to be made illegal...

That's a big part of my position. I could make the very same statement, using just radial tires. Now that we've both said that...

Ugh! I do. For my first car. Back in the days of bias ply tires.

Therein lies what I believe to be the biggest downfall of technology in cars. Not that I am opposed to technology at all, but the effect of certain improvements is often a certain degradation.
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That's certainly your perrogative.

You seem to forget our conversation from this time last year about the same topic. I explained that my best friend uses snows on his car and I've had plenty of first hand direct comparison.

What about the evidence from people who drive in the snow for years with no problems using them? That's not evidence enough for you?

Hold that last line up to a mirror and read it to yourself.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

I'm with you Mike. My Chevy truck came with Goodyear AT tires which are essentially all season tires for a truck. I plowed snow with them and never even had to put my chains on, although a few times I probably should have. When they got worn they didn't work as well as is to be expected. I replaced them with the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find since I plow a long driveway. I expected a dramatic increase in traction. The difference in plowing traction was nothing more than I would have expected from simply having new tires. However the different in noise was dramatic. I never forget that I now have REAL mud and snow tires on as they howl like crazy!
I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

There's a big difference between car and truck tires. We're talking cars here, or at least I am.

The difference is not much on dry pavement and the difference on wet pavement depends on the amount of water. The more there is, the less the difference.

That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the problems...?
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

It may for some folks, but I've driven in snow for 30+ years and it hasn't been a problem. The only accident I've had occurred just last December on a nice dry day ... I was hit by a drunk.
Matt
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

Brian, I don't disagree with you here, but as I just wrote in reply to Mike's post "I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)"
If I lived in an area where snow, slush and ice prevailed more than 50% of the winter days, then I'd almost certainly buy snow tires. However, where I live the number of days with these conditions is, at best, 10% of my driving days. I therefore optimize for the conditions that prevail most of the time.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

And I just wrote "That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the problems...?" I agree that much of the time they're not necessary, but that's even more true of AWD and 4WD, yet look at how many people buy vehicles with them. It's ironic that almost all of them would be better off simply with better tires, or even with just checking their tire pressures once in a while. ;-)
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Most would be better off slowing down a bit too. I don't have any statistics, but it seems as though many of the AWD and 4WD drivers think they can steer and stop in snow the same as they drive all the time. I've seen many of them by the side of the road. They don't comprehend the difference between traction to move through deep snow versus traction on slippery road. Slowing from 75 to 70 just doesn't do it., no matter what tires you have.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Absolutely! They don't understand that the extra traction that allows them to accelerate to extra-legal speeds in snow means NOTHING when you have to corner or stop. Many of the truck-based 4WD systems are actually worse for cornering and stopping than FWD. Ignorant lemmings.
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

Baloney. My truck will easily outrun either of my FWD minivan/cars in the yucky stuff and is much more stable at speed. Why do you think truck based 4WD systems are worse than FWD? Have you ever owned a 4WD truck?
Matt
Matt
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What speed would that be? Surely, you don't think that any car is as stable at 70 mph with an inch of snow/slush on the road as it is when dry. That was my point. What was perfectly safe at 70+ is not very safe when the road is covered, but some people just don't slow down until they are out of control. Relatively speaking, you may be right, but not in absolute terms.
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