auto-trans dip stick?

Page 4 of 5  

entertain me

your
I have pointed towards links several times and I have repeatedly asked Miles to justify his wild fantasies about what is used to tow in the UK. I have also pointed out to his satisfaction, I think, that the pick-ups we have here are one ton vehicles that are four cylinder, a fact some idiot said was impossible. I have also asked him to justify his comment that our towing method is unsafe when it is not, proven by its use here every day many thousands of times over. These are facts. I acknowledge that you use a load balancing hitch in the USA but deny its suitability for conditions here, where it is not used and is of no use and is not used,despite his stupid protestations otherwise. He can say it is used here until he is blue in the face but it does not make it so.
He continues to try and steer the subject to bigger vehicles and larger loads where I have made it clear that they are not applicable here other than how I have described the situation relating to heavy goods vehicles and their more stringent rules and inspections. It started and continues with his assertion that towing 3.5 tons behind a Trooper and carrying 1 ton in a Hilux type vehicle is dangerous and impossible, echoed by another poster. This is pure rubbish. I sometimes tow slightly more than the legal limit behind some of my vehicles at my own risk and so do thousands of others in the same way that most people break the speed limit. The legal limit is certainly safe with a built in margin for, for instance, moving and unstable loads such as cattle. Two more of his misconceptions involved auto reverse brakes and that he stated that we could not tow a load heavier than the towing vehicle here. Of course we can and always have. In the case of the Trooper it is nearly a ton and a half lighter than its potential trailer load. The Trooper tows exceptionally well, better than the Land Cruiser.
His continued posting of totally inaccurate information cannot go unchallenged, and will not.
That another poster, you, cannot comprehend and does not seem to accept these facts, says vastly more about you than it does about me. They are easily verifiable.
My only 'crime' seems to be that I know more about towing and towing law in the UK than does Miles, which really doesn't take a lot of work. I have only scratched the surface and have not mentioned the class of licences and how these affect the mass allowed to be driven by an individual plus the age restrictions and tachograph rules which apply to loads towed for commercial purposes much less the exemptions thereof.
I have made no comment that I can recall on the towing rules in force in the US, because I do not know them. It is somewhat odd that Miles seems to think he knows everything about how we tow here yet seems to be fundamentally incorrect almost every time, as I have amply demonstrated in this and previous posts.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
P.S. I live in the UK not USA

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Good. Then you should know that I am correct, if you know anything at all about the subject, which you have yet to demonstrate.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
This isn't my argument, all I wanted to know was what all this has to do with the subject.
I also have to say that despite numerous replies from yourself, you haven't even managed to answer this simple question yet !!
I can say that I do agree with the majority of your points even though I am not an authority on all the ins and outs of the subject.
I find it so sad that you refuse to accept other peoples points and you always have to try and be the authority on the subject.
It is possible for other points raised in this matter to be correct despite not being able to provide proof immediately. I think that you should bear this in mind before constantly forcing your views on everyone.
I seam to remember quite a while ago having to justify another point with you where you got quite arrogant. In that instance I couldn't relay my sources over the web, maybe this is the case in this instance..

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Even more verbal diarrhoea................
At least it will keep everyone amused who have nothing better to do than read your posts
Keep up the good entertainment, I think it is YOUR bedtime now .....

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Sorry, I forgot to mention, I had realised that this was not connected to dipsticks - other than the dipstick who calls himself HUW.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Don't you just like winding people up - I do.
All the best - keep up the bullshit.
Dave.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

to do

Nothing whatsoever to do with dipsticks. Isn't that obvious to you? It is not a good sign that you need this pointed out to you.

haven't
though I am

you
If their points are incorrect I point it out. If they continue to insist they are correct despite evidence to the contrary then I point it out more forcefully. Why should this bother you? You are,after all, not obliged to read it, let alone comment.

despite
bear
Again I have to ask Miles for justification for his statements which insist on our current use of alien towing technology and braking systems and the impossibility or lack of safety, he and another, insisted is intrinsic to our system. Also how the bancing hitch is relevant to our system in the UK. He is not able to provide proof immediately [or later or at all] because all the evidence out there proves it is I that is correct. Remember that he did provide one link with quotes out of context which was laughably easy to refute. I have a whole battery of further evidence of UK towing hitches and towing law in reserve if the thread calls for it.

with
my
There is no state secret involved here or was then [because I do not debate state secrets LOL]. It seems from the above that your only motive to current posts in this thread is to Troll, that is, to look for trouble as a kind of revenge for past failure or inadequacy in some way. Some people just can't take being wrong. If I am wrong, I will admit to being so, as I sometimes do. I am not wrong in this instance as you tacitly acknowledge. This being the case, then the opposite view is wrong. There is no halfway here because either we tow and carry such loads in the manner I described or we don't. He has been repeatedly asked to justify his view on our towing system and hardware but he has not because he cannot, not because he chooses not to. Tough shit squire.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Huw wrote:

Define well balanced. Please explain why auto makers build different versions of the same auto in the UK vs. the USA. Does Isuzu and Toyota etc. deliberetly build an inferior vehicle in the USA when they already have something better in the UK? Why would they do that? Isuzu and Toyota recommend maximum tow ratings here as well. Do they publish balanced figures in the UK and unbalanced in the USA? In the USA people would not tow heavy loads with smaller vehicles because larger vehicles are so readily available. Don't forget another difference in markets. It is common for people to tow recreational trailers 1000's of miles during a single vacation.
You are attempting to refute the benifits of something you have never experienced yourself. Something that others have for decades. Until you fully educate yourself on the benifits and experience the difference yourself debating it with you is pointless. Tow with your current vehicle and trailer without it, then try it with. Only then can you possibly realize how much it helps.

You do not tow 15,000lbs with a trooper. You might tow 6,000 but even then that is pushing things. In the UK you comprimise by using light vehicles to tow somewhat heavier loads than we would with the same vehicle in the USA. To say a trooper in the UK can tow as easily and handle as well as a full sized truck in the USA is absurd. It can't. But the market for smaller vehicles is high in the UK so a compromise is needed. Isuzu and Toyota etc thus build them with stiffer suspensions. I hope they use heavier duty tranny's as well.

Do you have steep downgrades there? Brake pads can overheat. Brakes on vehicles are the same here as there. They fail there just like here. I've never had brakes fail myself but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It also doesn't negate the need for a better system than surge brakes.

Not so. A weight distribution hitch does not change the trailers tounge weight as far as the trailer is concerned, only as far as the tow vehicle is. It distributes the weight towards the front of the tow vehicle rather than the rear. The trailers axle weight remains the same. A heavier load forward of the axle is greatly desired to improve handling.

I thought the same thing back when I towed with the same hitch as you. Then I tried it with the more modern equipment and only then realized the difference.

Not so. I stopped using surge brakes back in the 80's. They probably did have auto-reverse brakes here then but newer systems were already out that were better.

Not so at all. You use the very same system we did decades ago.

No, they are not more relaxed. We are not allowed to tow as heavy of loads on smaller vehicles as you do. We use full sized vehicles for that.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

advantage
noseweight
is to

different
Toyota
already
people
vehicles
markets.
Lot's of question which would best be answered by the auto manufacturer. Lot's of assumptions made on an unknown basis as far as I am concerned. Do you actually deny that the Trooper pulls 3.5 tons legally in the UK? If yes, please cite references. If no, then all those questions are best answered by someone local to you.

never
Until
difference
I am not refuting any benefit. I am saying it is a band-aid for poor design if used with Trooper sized vehicles which can and do pull 3.5 ton loads safely elsewhere [here] without it.

SUV's
even
light
and
can't.
You can twist and squirm and try to alter the subject all you like. Above 4.0 tons I have no view on the damned thing because it is not relevant and not used here. Below that weight it is again not used because it is not needed. Once again I ask you to justify your claim that it is.

compromise is

suspensions.
To my certain knowledge they do not use a stiffer suspension on Trooper and full size Land Cruiser here compared to with you. My Land Cruiser even has the active suspension only fitted to Lexus LX470 where you are. Pich-up trucks are a different matter and must have different versions or suspensions to you because they have a far higher payload size for size.

Brakes on

here.
surge
Yes we certainly do and heavy truck drivers from flat areas commonly have smoking brakes an the main road here. However, it is almost unheard of for a Trooper type vehicle to suffer brake fade with a towed load.

the
You can say what you like but for a 3.5 ton trailer here it is just about right, though I would like maybe a 100lbs more ideally. Anything above 4 tons is subject to different rules here. There is no nose weight recomendation above this weight here and most trailers above this are either close coupled turntable type with a Continental hitch or agricultural. Agricultural trailers may have a nose weight of around 3 tons for a 14 ton trailer weight. Trucks with continental drawbars as fitted to heavy goods vehicles have no nose weight whatsoever.

a
tounge
improve
problem
you.
But you cannot have exactly. You did not know of the universal use of auto-reverse brakes for a start, so you cannot know how efficient modern brakes of this kind are either.

realized
been
constantly
probably
already
Thank you. You did not know.

yet
of
How do you now know this? Only a few posts ago you were claiming we used two systems which we categorically do not.

all
of
that.
You are not allowed to tow 3 tons behind a Trooper? Show me a reference to the law and the reason for it please.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Have steep downgrades that is. Especially to get anywhere North and East of here. West is a no go area.
Just thought I'd clear that up :-)
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Huw wrote:

I have spoken with auto manufactures. The auto and trailer industry uses my companies products in much of their testing. Their main reply is marketing. Different markets. They went on to state there are two main differences. One is the vehicles people want to drive is different but a bigger issue is the far higher liability and litigation in the USA.

That has more to do with your regulations than actual vehicle capability differences. Our regulations won't allow a trooper to be rated that high. I wouldn't buy a Trooper if I was going to tow 7,000lbs. The other difference appears that few in the USA tow all the way up to a vehicles rating. Typically we buy a vehicle rated at 50-100% over the actual amount we intend to tow. The exception is if someone lives in an area such as Kansas where the freeway on ramps are the steepest hills they will ever see.

Not so. What you are attempting to tell me is that if you were to add a weight distribution hitch to that Trooper that you would see little or no improvement in handling. You would see a huge improvement. You can not refute that until you have towed with a WD hitch installed. As for a band-aid for poor design, we are talking about the same vehicle here. The only difference is the UK's version has stiffer springs. The frame is still the same. A full sized truck is going to be far stiffer and far better designed for towing than any Trooper in either country. None the less people will use a WD hitch on the larger truck because it improves handling greatly. You can keep ranting that it doesn't, it can't, its a band-aid but until you actually try it your words are baseless.

Needed? Not much is needed. It depends on the comfort, handling and safety factor you wish to achieve. It is more of a want than a need. We do not use WD hitches very often below about 3500lbs or so. It differs with personal choices. I already said I do not use a WD hitch with my 2500lb trailer. It is not needed but if I did add it I would see some improvement. Instead I tow with my larger truck. At 4 tons I would definately use a WD hitch even with my full sized truck that is rated to tow that much without it. That truck will easily out handle a Trooper when towing. So the WD hitch would be a want, not a need. The benifits are worth it.

Hmmm...now you're saying they are the same when above you stated we use WD hitches because of bad design. They are the same design. Trailer manufactures here could easily reduce the tounge weight by moving the axle forward. They do not do that because that would reduce handling. Typically trailers here are designed with tounge weights around 10% of total weight. Fifth wheels are about 15% I believe. Lighter is not better. It is a compromise in the UK for a different market.

You keep talking about the rules. Our rules appear to be more restrictive with regards to tow ratings. None the less people here do not rely on the government to tell us what is or isn't ideal. Rather we rely on industry experts and our own experiences. So even though tow ratings are below the UK's for identicle vehicles we typically tow even less. If we want to tow more we buy a bigger vehicle rather than tow up to what the rules allow.

Not so. I said I assume that issue was corrected but by then I had moved on to better hitch systems. Besides that issue has nothing to do with towing forward. The brakes themselves are the same.

Already covered that issue. UK vs. Europe. Keep up.

You keep changing your numbers. Is it 3, 3.5 or 4 tons? According to Isuzu the Trooper is rated in the USA up to 5,000lbs. Subtract from that the weight of the driver, passengers, luggage and fuel to get your actual maximum tow rating. You still have to be under the Troopers GVWR with the trailer.
Why tow 6,000lbs+ with such a small vehicle rather than buy a larger more capable one?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

as
reply
two
different
You mean they do not wish to drive Trooper/Pajero/Discovery/Range Rover/ Mercedes type vehicles? I thought the USA was a major market for these things.

USA.
That is a big problem here also. That is what insurance is for and so expensive. Our vehicles are fully covered up to their maximum allowed towing weight which in my case is 6615lbs but newer ones add another 1100lbs to that.

the
questions
capability
You have that about ways. If regulation is the cause, then it is YOUR regulation which prevents YOU exploiting the vehicles capability. It is not regulation which limits mine to towing 3 tons, it is some limitation of the vehicle. The regulations only state that the manufacturers imposed limit is not exceeded but that 3.5 tons are not exceeded unless brakes are modified to progressive coupled type. It may be that electical systems would be acceptable but I seem to remember that it is specifically excluded. Air brakes are the preffered solution though it is not popular due to the economics of the system for a gain of just half a ton with a limited number of suitable vehicles which IIRC is just the Land/Range Rover and Land Cruiser. No other vehicles in this size range that I can think of have a maximum allowed tow weight of 4 tons.
Our regulations won't allow a trooper to be rated that

I can assure you that it does the job quite adequetly. I know of one that used to tow at and over the limit for some 80,000 miles per year. Law enforcers are much more likely to check weights these last two years so he has now changed it for a vehicle that does not tow because his towed loads were most often overweight.
The other

vehicles
area
they
poor
3.5
add
little or

can
for
here.
I can assure you that the springs on this kind of vehicle are similar if not identical taking into account of differences accounted for by left and right hand drive.
A full sized truck is going to be far stiffer

country.
This is not relevant here because a) this class does not exist here and b) It would still be limited to 3.5 to four tons towed load unless it was classed as a commercial vehicle with all the plating, insurance, operators licence, brake, tachograph and driving licence regulations that come with it.

it
baseless.
I am sure it pulls the back of the truck up and transfers tongue weight horizontally. But basically it does this by lightening the tongue weight. To every action there is an equal and oposite reaction and all that.

like.
not
claim
and
need.
Shit. Up to two tons my vehicles tow and drive as if there were no trailer behind. 60 to 70 miles per hour is no problem on country roads allowing a bit extra stopping distance. One of my tri-axle trailers weighs 2800 lbs unladen for goodness sake
It

hitch
would
tons I

is
handle a

The
Land
use
Of trailer which overloads your springs with high nose weights. Simple really..
They are the same design. Trailer

the
handling.
Nope. I suspect they do it for simplicity and cheapness of design together with the profit opportunities afforded by selling extra driving aids to compensate.

of
It is a compromise everywhere. 10% with a minimum of 50kgs is about normal for caravans in the uk. They seldom weigh more than 1200kgs so 120kgs is about right for these vans longer than 15' which are generally towed by SUV's. About 180kgs is my favourite nose weight for above two tons towed.

just
Anything
do
Rather we

tow
even
tow up

These SUV's are the biggest available in the UK. Pick up trucks do not make good tow vehicles because their rear is too light without ballast in the back but anyhow most have a low towing maximum. As I have explained previously, higher loads than 4 tons [effectively 3.5 tons] come under far different rules here and become uneconomic and inpractical for private or leisure owners.

of
do
Twenty years is a long time and with almost every new generation of trailer I have had the brakes are better.

we
They do not use either system in Europe either as far as I am aware. Please provide a reference if you claim they are. You did INSIST that they were used in the UK despite me living and towing here. I assume from the above that you now concede that you were wrong.

to
Covered above.
Subtract from

your
GVWR
No. That is the maximum allowed trailer load which is commonly reached by many classes of driver. Not usually leisure drivers I would think, but I am no longer one of those as far as towing is concerned.

I have explained this above.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Huw wrote:

It is, but people do not tow that much with them. They use them for driving in snow, towing lightweight trailers or boats etc.

We have more lawyers here and laws that allow for massive awards from auto makers. That causes them to lower the ratings and gives more incentive to require WD hitches for heavier loads.

LOL..Not so. It is better to buy a vehicle more capable. The result is greater comfort, easier handling and far safer.

Higher tow ratings are great marketing points for auto makers. They would push them higher here too if the lawyers could not sue. All too often I have seen the results of people who tow 3.5 tons with a trooper. Not a pretty sight. What often happens is they are traveling down a very steep grade and someone cuts them off. The Troopers capabilities at emergency handling with such a high tow load is not good and an accident results. Sure the accident was the other persons fault but I'd rather have a vehicle that can manuver easier out of such a situation.

Air brakes are pretty rare here on consumer vehicles and trailers. They are the very common on commercial trucks as well as very large 5th wheel consumer haulers. Consumers do have such rigs but not that many on the road as they are very expensive. Electric brakes are the standard for trailers up to around 16,000lbs possibly a bit higher. That size trailer would have at least 3 axles.

That is a matter of opinion. Try towing the same load with a full sized truck and see the difference it makes. Far easier to handle. Hardly notice the trailer is even there.

No. The UK's version is stiffer as are most SUV's in the UK.

Exactly. It reduces the amount of weight on the back of the vehicle at the hitchball. It does not change anything as far as loading of the trailer is concerned. The trailers axle weight will remain the same at around 90%. This is totally different than building a trailer with the axle mounted forward to reduce tounge weight. What it is more similar to is moving the hitchpoint forward although not nearly as effective as is the case with a 5th wheel. The more weight you apply to the back of a vehicle the worse it will handle because it lightens the front wheels, the ones you need to steer. As a trailers axle weight begins to exceed 90% the tendency to sway is increased.
Now, the reason you do not use WD hitches is because there are few that can work with surge brakes (there are some but not common). From what I can see you have a law that prevents in cab control over trailer brakes which is why you use surge brakes. Therefore it is difficult to achieve the optimum towing conditions of 10%-15% tounge weight. A compromise is needed but it is not optimum. A WD hitch as used here is not a band-aid. It is to achieve optimum towability. It is not needed, it is desired.

I once thought that too back in the 80's when I towed with your type of setup. Then I used more modern technology and realized the difference.

No...they build the trailers for optimum tounge weight with the use of WD hitches in mind. Your use of surge brakes and inability to use in cab controllers prevents that. See above.

LOL...The trailer manufactures here do not produce hitches so there goes your monetary theory. The axle can be placed most anywhere at the same cost. As far as cheapness goes most of our trailers are much heavier than yours. Heavier frames, heavier boxes, interior cabinets etc. Thats because we have larger tow vehicles available. There are many ultra light trailers here though but they also are designed with the optimum tow loading in mind.

You mentioned earlier trailers up to 4 tons and tounge weights up to 150kg. Now its 2 tons and 180kgs? That sounds more reasonable and a Trooper can handle that.

Mini trucks like you have do indeed have rather low ratings. They are lightweight trucks not suited well to heavy loads. Most mini trucks here are rated to about 4,000lbs. Full sized trucks are another story. Their tow ratings are FAR above that of even the largest SUV's such as Chevy Suburban, Ford Excursion etc. Full sized trucks are rated up to 16,000lbs for the commonly available models. Higher ratings can be obtained but those models aren't the normal consumer models.

The laws make it too expensive? The vehicles and trailers of that size are expensive here but not out of reach. The majority of people towing 15,000lb fifth wheels using full sized trucks are elderly retired people who use them to tour the country for months at a time.

Huh? Tow ratings in the UK are absolute irregardless of loading of the tow vehicle itself? Things like GVWR are meaningless in the UK? I find that hard to believe as it makes no sense whatsoever. Normally tow ratings are the GVWR minus the curb weight of the vehicle but the GVWR must be adhered to making the drivers weight, luggage, fuel etc. all relevant in determining the actual maximum towable weight.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

YOUR
result is

But it must logically be so. Our regulations allow the tow vehicle to tow up to its potential up to a maximum limit of 4 tons. The reason we do not have a 'full size' class is more than partly down to the more stringent and restrictive, not to say expensive regulations that come into force above this weight where almost all such loads are pulled by 7.5 ton commercial goods vehicles.

I do not think so for here because although the law states that vehicles can tow up to 3.5 tons without modification, most towing vehicles are rated way below this. It is only with the newer Trooper that it came up to 3.5 tons. Land Cruiser 90/prado is still at 3.0 tons I believe. Only a handful are rated to as high as the law allows here. There are no insurance penalties for these vehicles and I insure trailers and their loads for all of my vehicles for commercial and recreational use with very little extra premium.
All too

trooper.
There was me thinking you had said it was not done where you are. Hereabouts it is very common, especially livestock trailers [livestock move sideways and front to back] on market days to have most trailers loaded to the maximum and no one blinks an eye. An accident with such a load would make the newspapers. It is a rare event indeed.
What often happens is they are traveling down a

Cuts them off?! These are not sports cars my friend and it is difficult to cut a Trooper going down a grade in second gear off in any way that is dangerous.
The Troopers capabilities

I'd
situation.
So they are here. Very few indeed because the extra half ton allowed on only three vehicle models [that I know of] make it uneconomic.
They

wheel
the
for
sized
Hardly
But we have neither the need nor consequently the wish to.

similar
by
Not the Japanese or European SUV's that you import squire. I can assure you that they have the same springs. I have a Trooper and Land Cruiser official shop manuals. As far as the LC goes there is a higher ride height for Australia and a choice of standard or sky-hook suspension and that is basically it, apart from a variation for Saudi which I am not too clear about. As it happens I have two sets of springs having imported a nearly new set of standard LHD [and stiffer than skyhook] springs for the LC from Russia via Holland.

reaction
at
That is what I said. It is to reduce an overload situation.
It does not change anything as far as loading of the

at
the
similar
as
Nowhere near, I assume you are correct
The more weight you apply to the back of

wheels,
exceed
So why put the damned weight where it should not be in the first place. Most of the rest of the world do not do so.

that
Now I agree that it is related but I would say that the reason we can stay with efficient over-run brakes is because we do not use the Heath Robinson hitch in the first place.
From what I

brakes
Thank you. It makes a change from your earlier stance where you insited I knew nothing about towing because the use was widespread here. You now acknowledge that it is not.
Therefore it is difficult to achieve

But I have already demonstrated that it is almost precisely achieaved by the majority of recreational caravans and smaller trailers used here without any complex or extra components. Larger trailers up to the practical limit [as i have explained on several occassions] may have higher nose weights but are towed by larger SUV's like the Trooper which can manage sensible higher loads.
A compromise is

it is

roads
trailers
of
difference.
"thought"? I drive the damned things on a weekly basis and I don't think twice about it. Last week I towed a 2.8 ton Case skid steer loader back over the mountains of Plynlimon which is just routine. The only concession one has to make is to the type of load. Here the paricular load had a fairly high centre of gravity, partly due to the trailer having the bed over the top of the wheels. Attachments added more weight. The mountain road presented no problem because our local roads are far more challenging, running up the coast and crossing valleys generally at right angle.

Simple
of
in
But as you may have found out, their use is against the law. Now I cannot confirm this because I have not done the research but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember that this might be the case. I did not mention it because I could not confirm it. I had it in mind to find out though if you continued on your insistence that the use was widespread here when I knew damn well that it was at least very extremely rare. Air or vacuum brakes linked to the foot pedal are allowed though.

goes
No but the motor trade in general and retail do;-)
The axle can be placed most anywhere at the same

heavier
about
so
a
Didn't I say "above 2 tons"? I think I did. Have a look four lines up LOL.

not
ballast
are
story.
such as

to
[effectively
uneconomic
size
This is what I said only three lines up "uneconomic and inpractical for private or leisure owners."
I have already explained the rules and regulations that make loads above 3.5 tons so.
The majority of people towing

people
reached
the
Again explained above somewhere. Driving licence laws take precident, then tow vehicle limits and then absolute limits as in statute.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Huw wrote:

You're missing the point. The trailers here are designed to meet optimum loading charactaristics. That can only be achieved using a WD hitch system. It is not to correct an overload situation. It is to achieve ideal conditions. Your regulations prevent in cab controllers to be used and thus your use of drawbar brake systems which in turn prevent WD hitches from being used (I have seen one new WD hitch that can work with drawbar brake systems). Your trailers are a compromise design and less than optimum.

Where it should not be? Ask your own government this question. It is where you live that the loading of the trailers are less than optimum. Your use of surge brakes prevents this. Towing heavy loads is not that common in most of the world for consumers. Most of the rest of the world? Look at trailers in the USA, Canada, AUS, NZ. These are areas where it is very common for consumers to tow heavy loads long distances.

Thats a matter of opinion. The maximimum tow rating for the Trooper here is only 5,000lbs. The ideal tounge weight would be 500-750lbs. The Trooper can tow like this but its far less than ideal. Your tow rating is even higher apparently which would increase the optimum tounge weight even higher. No way is that Trooper going to sit perfectly level with 750lbs on the back and no way is the load on the front tires going to not be reduced. You can tow like this but it is not the ideal situation. A WD hitch solves this.

Until you experience the difference you can't possibly understand.

You have a law that prevents in cab control of trailer brakes. I guess your government feels people can't learn to use them, adjust them etc.

Hitch companies produce them. They are not owned nor operated by auto or trailer manufactures.

Loading of the tow vehicle with regards to passengers, luggage and fuel certainly do reduce the amount the vehicle can tow. When Isuzu or any other maker gives you the maximum tow rating the vehicles cargo must be subtracted. The UK is no different. Isuzu and others do not dismiss the vehicles GVWR in the UK. You still must adhere to its limits.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
We can solve this issue once and for all. Huw.. scan your USER MANUAL for the Trooper you have, SCAN the page that says what the maximum towing capacity is.. then post it here as a JPG attachment..
Chuck Burns
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Zex0s wrote:

There is no dispute on possible tow ratings in the UK. It's more Huw's assertion that WD hitches elsewhere in the world are a band-aide for improper loading design by Trailer manufactures outside the UK for possible monetary reasons so they can sell expensive hitch equipment.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

MANUAL
There is not now because it has been resolved. Other issues were diversions.
Huw
--
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Huw wrote:

To an extent. You still misunderstand tow ratings and fail to account for vehicle cargo and GVWR's.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.