Disco Vs Trooper - shocking result!

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Had some problems with my Trooper with the smoke etc, after much work on the garages part & a lot of smoke we found the heads knackered (even after a
Isuzu tech told us it was fine) which isn't a big deal as I'm not paying!
But, the garage concerned have given me a Disco TDi auto (Jap import - mint & no rust) for the week while the new head is fitted. I find the on-road manners a little more soft & less predictable. The trade off for slightly softer suspension I suppose. The one thing that hit me right between the eyes is the build quality of the interior & some of the exterior is shockingly bad in places. My Trooper is 12 years old & looks like a new motor in most ways, the interior is solid with no rattles or dropping off trim items, this is a 'P' reg with similar miles but is in a lot worse condition. I don't mean it's been abused, far from it, but the things literally dropping apart!
The drivetrain feels a lot more modern than the trooper, but I only use the Trooper in 2wd anyway on road & 4wd is off road only really on the Trooper. I do like how it drives though & I'll see how she performs off road in the woods later on!
Have I got one that's been a bit abused (it's cleaner than a whistle & not damaged if you know what I mean) or are they all like this?
Another thing, the Trooper feels HUGE at the side of this!
Still, here's to the Trooper returning with a new head soon!
Nige
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Right, whatever. I trust you saw my post as an attack on your beloved LR? Well, it wasn't & really your posts show your unrelenting faith in something that is flawed in more ways than one.
Still, the next time your LR breaks down you can rest assured I would be there to pull you out of the shit!
BTW, I wonder how many LR have heads that go astray after 12 years, or even 2 years? QAs for rust, get a grip matey, LR can rot like mild steel in the rain at the drop of a hat as can any machine made from the same substance without the correct protection. I used to work on Austin Rover in the early 80's & can tell you the switchgear inside this 6 year old LR is right out of a Montego & it was crap then!
Your point makes no mention of the fact at any point in time you could, whatever vehicle you are driving experience a serious mechanical failure, shit build quality is endemic I'm afraid.
Nige
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Probably as I cross-posted it!!!! ;~)
It was meant to appeal to both sets of owners anyway, but he seems to have taken it as a full frontal assault on LR. Not the case at all as my next purchase will be a brand new rangie in a year or so!
The 3.1 is indeed a great engine & my own view as to the few head replacements I have heard about on import vehicles is the 'sea' factor in Japan, you are never more than a few miles form the sea so you can't really get it up to a good temperature & the traffic is red hot busy & as is the climate (in most of Japan) Never heard of a UK trooper having the head replaced at 40k!
I would 't swap my Trooper for a LR of the same age for a start! But I can confirm, they are both VERY different vehicles as the LR is much better off road & is slightly more refined on road.
Cheers
Nige
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Because he was replying to some fuckwit of a Trooper owner who cross posted to alt.FAN.landrover.... maybe ?
I'm not sure why the original poster (Nige) posted to a.f.l. explaining to all the Land Rover fans that he prefers his Isuzu that is currently out of commission to the loan Land Rover, I guess he's either a troll or he just doesn't know any better.
Whatever lights his candle I guess !
Oh, FWIW the BMW engines are shite too but we still love our Land Rovers anyway :-) The Isuzu engines are a good compromise because they are cheap and in plentiful supply second hand... <nomex>not sure why, maybe the engine is the only bit left when the rest of the vehicle has fallen apart ?</nomex> The problem with LR's is they keep outlasting their engines. Shame they can't get an engine to stay reliable over the 200, 000 miles mark :-(
cheers
Dave W.
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Well, keep them going strong... then when the rest of the cars written off us Hybrid builders will pick them up and stick them in a proper car :-)
Lee D -- ________________________________ www.lrproject.com Just a little hobby site about Landies :-) ________________________________
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We sure will. But, let me give you a piece of advice: if you do ever take your car off road, make sure to buy a winch, because God knows, I'm sick and tired of pulling Jeeps and LRs out of shit.
By the way, how is your field car doing? Stuck in a pile of cow crap?
Mike
Loving the last of a true ORV--the Isuzu Trooper.
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I take it I need a winch because the Trooper has a problem mounting one or the driver is not intellectually advanced enough to own one ??
Have a nice day :-))

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Probably enough Troopers around.. :-/
--
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As it goes mandible I use a hand winch to save weight, the two times I got stuck; one was a winch out with the hand winch, the second sure enough was helped by troopers ............ very nice blokes but bit scary with the AK74's. They had clapped out Series II's but kept them going with any old bits to hand, funny enough they never mentioned having to replace a head though . bodies yes ... heads no.
wrote:

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Michael wrote:

LR's are very nice cars but the reliability is much worse than any Isuzu. LR's are better looking. I would like one with Trooper engine, drive train etc. Anyone knows that any Isuzu, Nissan or Toyota will outperform a Land Rover. Land Rover is a passion for most owners and I can understand the feeling. They go for the feeling and the love for the vehicle much more then the usefullness, quality or reliability. Let them do so. They will never exchance their car for anything Japanese. I would trade my car for a Nissan or Toyota very easy because of the quality and not for the looks. With my 'Japanese crap' I drive from Amsterdam to Rome and back not even taking a tool kit with me........ Kind regards, Erik-Jan. http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper
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On or around Thu, 20 May 2004 03:25:33 +0200, Erik-Jan Geniets

hmmm... Isuzu engines, I grant you, seem pretty bomb-proof.

that's such a sweeping an general statement as to be meaningless. what are your criteria? on-road? off-road? speed? economy? towing? ease of maintenance? cost of parts?
in some areas, some of the above will outperform some Land Rover models. in other areas, they're not so good.
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Austin Shackles wrote:

Yeah, I think they are.

My criteria: Reliability first. On and off-road. Speed is no issue, I do not care. The others, economy? towing? ease of

It should perform good everywhere ;-)
Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
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Bong! Wrong answer. I grant you economy. But Defenders and Discoverys are regarded as superlative towing vehicles. That's why you see so many of them.
Ease of maintenance is more of a point of discussion. I've not had any direct experience of japanese cars in this situation but I think you'll find the modularity of the various LR models (not necessarily the more recent models like P38a) means they're pretty much like big Meccano sets.
And you lose also on cost of parts. We've seen several times in this NG that LR parts are in most cases far cheaper, and also easier to get hold of, than other 4x4s'. This probably isn't the case in some parts of the world, like Africa, where Toyota in particular really got their act together, but it is in most parts of Europe, where most of them are used.
Now, reliability... I think many people here would admit that compared to something like Toyotas, LRs are not necessarily as reliable as they could be. But I can drive around on any given day and see dozens of Land Rovers dating from the 70s, 60s and 50s. On the other hand, I don't see huge numbers of any other vehicle from that era knocking around. This has to say something at least for their general longevity.
Finally to performance. Off-road, which is where LR aim to perform very well, LRs score very highly among the regular 4x4 brigade (to distinguish from Unimogs, tractors etc). All of us have seen stuff on TV, off-road even ts etc where LRs have, time and time again, pulled other 4x4s out of the brown stuff. Now, you may occasionally have seen a Land Cruiser pull a Discovery or something out of a big hole, but the statistics are loaded in favour of the Land Rover I'm afraid. They're not totally unbeatable, but they have a pretty good winning formula.
On-road, the more modern LRs are actually not bad, but if you want a good on-road 4x4 you're really looking at something like an X5, although of course the Range Rover actually scores very highly in both areas, if you can afford one. I do high motorway miles in my Disco II and the on-road handling is good, the only complaint I'd have is that it's a bit noisier than something like my Volvo V70 was.
I'd leave you with the thought that, as per a different thread, the UK and US military use Land Rovers widely when we go round invading other less fortunate countries for nonsensical political reasons. The US have a good choice here - they could easily use Toyotas if they wanted. But they don't. Do you think the US Army would use Land Rovers if they thought they were unreliable, difficult to maintain and not very good off-road? Of course they wouldn't.
Sorry Erik-Jan, I give you 1.5/6, or 25%.
David
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David French wrote:

Bro-in-Law visited a year or two back in his Trooper Citation. Alternator failed during visit. Nearest one located in Birmingham (we were in West Wales). Seven days to get it shipped here and - wait for it - 700GBP.
Fitted, obviously ;-)
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Richard Brookman wrote:

Very strange.... Here in the Netherlands, a town (17.000 inhabitants) where I live I can get one within two miles from my home. After market indeed. But why go to the dealer for just an alternator. Costs...125 Euro's (around 110 USD, don't know in GBP) Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
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On or around Sun, 23 May 2004 00:49:46 +0200, Erik-Jan Geniets

I daresay you can get aftermarket ones here. It may not be possible to get one on spec though, it might need ordering.
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Austin Shackles wrote:

If it not in stock overhere they do a rebuilt of the broken one. Takes a couple of hours. Includes a one year warranty also. Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
--

http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

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Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:

Fair enough. There were Isuzu dealers much nearer than Birmingham when my B-in-L needed his, but none had any in stock, and the one that did took a week to ship it. I don't know what this tells us, but it aint very good.

Erm... my point was that this was an Isuzu part, following the thread that said Jap parts were expensive. QED, I think. We all know that aftermarket parts are cheaper, but that's true of any car. He wanted an Isuzu part for an Isuzu vehicle - not an unreasonable request.
700 quid!
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Richard Brookman wrote:

Car manufactures do not make alternators, starters, exhaust systems, brake parts, spark plugs, light bulbs, shock aborbers, wipers, tow hooks, bearings, or whatever. So after market is as good as original. Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

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On or around Sun, 23 May 2004 23:46:13 +0200, Erik-Jan Geniets

that depends. some aftermarket "recon" units are no such thing, or are worked on to a lower standard.
aftermarket new stuff may or may not be as good as OEM depending on who made it. most aftermarket electrical bits like alternators is reconditioned, though.
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