Oil question

My dealer said that the cars come with dino oil and that's what they use on lube jobs. I have M-1 in mine right now.

This is an example of an old wives tale, the synthetic oils, despite lower viscosity, have higher adhesion than dino oil and provide extremely long term protection during periods of disuse.

Shell has a great site explaining the differences if you chose to do the research.

JJ

jeremy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@dcnet2000.com:

I thought Jagwahs were self lubricating, leaks out the engine and covers every mechanical device under it. To do the front end, travel in reverse :-)

Ron, You heard that Jaguar didn't go ahead with a plan to make refrigerators because they couldn't get them to leak oil. I know my old girl doesn't have any rust problems down the middle (come to think of it, the Jag doesn't either)

Graham

The leaks serve to indicate there is oil present. ;-)

Molecular bonding between the lubricant and heat stressed, friction bearing surfaces was more than a web search. Laugh all you like, aviation was not a hobby in my family, but serious business.

JJ

"Graham L" wrote in news:Oh%Xc.11081$ snipped-for-privacy@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

LOL :-)

Then obviously you either weren't listening or chose not to. I'll allow you the final word in this discussion as I am done, so make it a good one.

Lubrication is of two general types based on the operating environment; that is, load and speed of the equipment and viscosity of the lubricant. Smooth surfaces separated by a layer of lubricant do not come into contact and, hence, do not contribute to frictional forces. This condition is called hydrodynamic lubrication. Boundary lubrication, on the other hand, arises when there is intermittent contact between surfaces, resulting in significant frictional forces.

Dynamic viscosity is usually reported in poise (P) or centipoise (cP, where 1 cP = 0.01 P), or in SI units as pascal-seconds (Pa-s, where 1 Pa-s = 10 P). Dynamic viscosity, which is a function of only the internal friction of a fluid, is the quantity used most frequently in bearing design and oil flow calculations.

Because it is more convenient to measure viscosity in a manner such that the measurement is affected by oil density, kinematic viscosity is normally used to characterize lubricants. Kinematic viscosity of a fluid equals its dynamic viscosity divided by its density, both measured at the same temperature and in consistent units. The most common units for reporting kinematic viscosity are stokes (St) or centistokes (cSt, where

1 cSt = 0.01 St), or in SI units as square millimeters per second (mm2/s, where 1 mm2/s = 1 cSt).

Dynamic viscosity in centipoise can be converted to kinematic viscosity in centistokes by dividing by the fluid density in grams per cubic centimeter (g/cm3) at the same temperature. Kinematic viscosity in square millimeters per second can be converted to dynamic viscosity in pascal-seconds by multiplying by the density in grams per cubic centimeter and dividing the result by 1000.

Other viscosity systems, including Saybolt, Redwood, and Engler, have also been used because of their familiarity to many people. The instruments developed to measure viscosity in these systems are rarely used. Most viscosity determinations are made in centistokes and converted to values in other systems.

The viscosity of any fluid changes with temperature, increasing as temperature decreases, and decreasing as temperature rises. Viscosity may also change with a change in shear stress or shear rate.

To compare petroleum base oils with respect to viscosity variations with temperature, ASTM Method D 2270 provides a means to calculate a viscosity index (VI). This is an arbitrary number used to characterize the variation of kinematic viscosity of a petroleum product with temperature. The calculation is based on kinematic viscosity measurements at 40 and 100°C. For oils of similar kinematic viscosity, the higher the viscosity index, the smaller the effect of temperature.

The benefits of higher VI are: 1. Higher viscosity at high temperature, which results in lower engine oil consumption and less wear. 2. Lower viscosity at low temperature, which for an engine oil may result in better starting capability and lower fuel consumption during warm-up.

The measurement of absolute viscosity under realistic conditions has replaced the conventional viscosity index concept in evaluating lubricants under operating conditions.

Another factor in viscosity measurements is the effect of shear stress or shear rate. For certain fluids, referred to as Newtonian fluids, viscosity is independent of shear stress or shear rate. When viscosity is affected by changes in shear stress/shear rate, the fluid is considered non-Newtonian.

Kinematic viscosity measurements are made at a low shear rate (100 s-1). Other methods are available to measure viscosity at shear rates that simulate the lubricant environment under actual operating conditions. Different instruments used to measure kinematic viscosity are:

1. Capillary Viscometers measure the flow rate of a fixed volume of fluid through a small orifice at a controlled temperature. The rate of shear can be varied from near zero to 106 s-1 by changing capillary diameter and applied pressure. Types of capillary viscometers and their mode of operation are:

Glass Capillary Viscometer ? Fluid passes through a fixed-diameter orifice under the influence of gravity. The rate of shear is less than

10 s-1. All kinematic viscosities of automotive fluids are measured by capillary viscometers.

High-Pressure Capillary Viscometer ? Applied gas pressure forces a fixed volume of fluid through a small-diameter glass capillary. The rate of shear can be varied up to 106 s-1. This technique is commonly used to simulate the viscosity of motor oils in operating crankshaft bearings. This viscosity is called high-temperature high-shear (HTHS) viscosity and is measured at 150°C and 106 s-1. HTHS viscosity is also measured by the Tapered Bearing Simulator (see below).

1. Rotary Viscometers use the torque on a rotating shaft to measure a fluid's resistance to flow. The Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS), Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV), Brookfield Viscometer and Tapered Bearing Simulator (TBS) are all rotary viscometers. Rate of shear can be changed by changing rotor dimensions, the gap between rotor and stator wall, and the speed of rotation.

Cold Cranking Simulator ? The CCS measures an apparent viscosity in the range of 500 to 200,000 cP. Shear rate ranges between 104 and 105 s-1. Normal operating temperature range is 0 to -40°C. The CCS has demonstrated excellent correlation with engine cranking data at low temperatures. The SAE J300 viscosity classification specifies the low-temperature viscometric performance of motor oils by CCS limits and MRV requirements.

Mini-Rotary Viscometer (ASTM D 4684) ? The MRV test, which is related to the mechanism of pumpability, is a low shear rate measurement. Slow sample cooling rate is the method's key feature. A sample is pretreated to have a specified thermal history which includes warming, slow cooling, and soaking cycles. The MRV measures an apparent yield stress, which, if greater than a threshold value, indicates a potential air-binding pumping failure problem. Above a certain viscosity (currently defined as 60,000 cP by SAE J 300), the oil may be subject to pumpability failure by a mechanism called "flow limited" behavior. An SAE 10W oil, for example, is required to have a maximum viscosity of

60,000 cP at -30°C with no yield stress. This method also measures an apparent viscosity under shear rates of 1 to 50 s-1.

Brookfield Viscometer ? Determines a wide range of viscosities (1 to 105 P) under a low rate of shear (up to 102 s-1). It is used primarily to determine the low-temperature viscosity of automotive gear oils, automatic transmission fluids, torque converter and tractor fluids, and industrial and automotive hydraulic fluids. Test temperature is held constant in the range -5 to -40°C.

The Scanning Brookfield technique measures the Brookfield viscosity of a sample as it is cooled at a constant rate of 1°C/hour. Like the MRV, this method is intended to relate to an oil's pumpability at low temperatures. The test reports the gelation point, defined as the temperature at which the sample reaches 30,000 cP. The gelation index is also reported, and is defined as the largest rate of change of viscosity increase from -5°C to the lowest test temperature. This method is finding application in engine oils, and is required by ILSAC GF-2.

Tapered Bearing Simulator ? This technique also measures high-temperature high-shear rate viscosity of motor oils (see High Pressure Capillary Viscometer). Very high shear rates are obtained by using an extremely small gap between the rotor and stator wall.

jeremy wrote in news:41319275.E3E5F4C4 @dcnet2000.com:

Rubbish, it is an additive for Jagwahs to leak everywhere, and spot their territory, just like the 'animal'. Expensive in some areas, cheap in others. The cheaper the oil, the better it is, as it has to be changed often anyway.

Any clown who throws expensive oil in bloody Jaguars has too much money and no brain. Common garden variety oil works well in a common car, Jaguars are nothing special, they are a nice ride, if they were not you would'nt bother.

If you buy a New Buggatti, put your fancy shit oil in it, if you can afford the car you'll be silly enough to use 'that' oil :-)

I run a lot of old cars, 480,000 miles on one without a ring job,

290,000 on another, no problems and the one I sold recently had 260,000 with less than a 3% drop in compression and no leaks, and it was made by the cat people.

Not bad for running in tropical heat and arctic type cold

No car in 2005 should leak - I don't care if it's a $60K S-Type like I bought, or a $16K Taurus. The quality of the material on seals, gaskets, and the metals used to attach heads to blocks should all be enough to prevert oil leaks, no? I have had old cars and old motorcycles that were always seeping oil. But *none* of my newer vehicles (03 Z06, 03 Avalanche,

02 GMC 3500, 99 Yukon, 99 Suburban, 96 Grand Cherokee) have leaked a single drop of oil. Now I have an 05 Jag; and I remain hopeful that it does not leak a single drop of oil. If it does, it's going back to the Jag dealer for repair. In this day and age, nobody should have to expect oil leaks. Especially if you fork over $50K to $60K to a Jaguar Dealer.

Its good to see your engineering intellect, but all I can say is "What the hell where you trying to say"? It was no answer, just a info puke.

I have a secret weapon its called a surface modifier. Machined surfaces when looked under a scope look like a jagged steak knife. I use a German product that actually slightly sluffs the peaks into the valleys making a flatter surface. I then use a moly additive. But all this is for racing and is not worth the cost on a touring car. In my Jag I simply use oil, oil with at least a "SJ" spec. These specifications are printed within a circular seal on the back of the bottle.

Airplanes on the otherhand do need to have some anti-gelling properties as it can get mighty cold up there. But a Jag is not an airplane....at least not for very long! :-)

If your Jag has sat for a long period and you feel that maybe all your oil is in the pan do the following.... pull your fuel pump relay (Older cars - pull coil wire and no choke.) and crank the car over a couple of times, re-install the relay and go on your merry way.

Blake

I have read articles about not using synthetics during the break-in process because its "too good" and may not allow proper component seating. Hmm...

I dont think anyone is a dumb dumb for using synthetics as it does have wonderful properties, its those that go out and pay extra money for "4X4" oil that make me roll on the floor.

Its a personal choice and that is that!

Blake

I don't buy that concept one bit. Otherwise, a Corvette, Viper, Saleen, Ferrari, or Lamborghini would never seat. They all start out with Mobil 1.

At any rate, I put in Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula and a Fram MajorGuard today; with 970 miles on it. So, let's see how it all works out.