A friend was trying to help me siphon some oil from my Scrambler to get an oil analysis done. (Analysis came back fine.)
However, he used some plastic tubing to get the sample through the dipstick tube, got it caught somehow when pulling it out, and broke off an unknown quantity in the pan.
So I assume I must drop the pan and remove whatever plastic tubing remains before starting the motor.
Question #1: Since I'm already in there should I replace the oil pump? As far as I know the existing (and original) pump is working fine; and the engine has only 55,000 original miles.
Question #1a: If you think I should replace the oil pump -- is there a recommended replacement pump/brand/part??
Question #2: I have not dropped the pan yet. What gasket/gasket kit do you recommend I get? And what type sealer (if any) should I be using??
I apologize for asking such basic questions but I haven't been doing much mechanicing for quite a while and don't know for sure how it should be done with today's parts. Advice on this forum has been very helpful numerous times .. so any suggestions will be most appreciated ......
Not sure about the gasket but with only 55,000 miles I wouldn't worry about the oil pump, make sure the screen is clean but that's about it. Those pumps spend their whole lives immersed in oil and they don't wear very much unless you never change the oil.
If you plan on doing much wrenching it might be worth your while to invest in a shop manual, it will have details like what kind of sealer you should use.
It's used to determine what contaminates are in the oil. Those tests can be really useful to tell if the engine is running too rich, showing excessive wear, has an internal coolant leak, poor ventilation and a bunch of other useful things.
The oil is like the engines blood and if anything is wrong it will show up in the oil.
For #2, Napa sells a one piece gasket that works pretty good. I put one on when I changed engines. No sealer required, which means you won't need to replace it if you need to drop the oil pan again.
Agree. But its sure easy to do if the pan is already off. So I just thought I'd see if anybody had a different view.
Agree. Very good advice. And I actually do have the factory manual as sold to consumers, came in two volumes. I bought this CJ8 new in
1982 and had the manual before I had the Scrambler
Alas, it does not 'have details" on this question.
And the manual, in this case, only works with knowledge and materials available 25 years ago; a lot has changed in materials, sealers, gaskets, etc. since 1982. Therefore the question.
Yes, that's it. Learn info about the engine as much as about the oil. In fact I use synthetic and change it often so I don't really even think about the oil; its what's going on to the engine itself that I want to know about. (One of the results reported where I test includes antifreeze levels. Detecting internal coolant leaks early -- hopefully before you see obvious signes -- is a VERY good thing.)
Plus if you keep a vehicle over time (in this case 25 years) it lets you see changes in the motor's condition as it wears over time. I can pull out the results and look from early on.
Also often used by people purchasing high-end used vehicles; actually a good thing to do if purchasing any used vehicle to assess the engines condition because there are a lot of 'sins' that can be revealed.
An interesting aside -- if leaded fuel was ever run in the engine for any period of time the oil analysis will show increased levels of lead from what would be expected. Normally that higher lead concentration would indicate specific problems with the engine if the engine had never used leaded gas and the lead was coming from wear. I'm not an expert here for certain, but I've been told the excellent lubricating properties of lead from leaded fuel that leaked past the rings sort of embeds itself in the cylinder walls -- in this situation sort of providing enhanced lubrication.
That's what I've always done .. until the spinal cord injury. Now I have difficulty working under any vehicle.
After the injury I started thinking of alternative way of doing lots of things.
30+ years working in Underwater Archaeology and Scientific Diving living around expensive boats where it is not possible to get underneath engines and watching high-end car dealers siphon oil from dipsticks made me start thinking. So I did a little research, thought I'd try it and got a tank that uses air from my compressorto pull the oil out that way.
Haven't actually tried it on the CJ8 yet because when the problem occurred I pulled the plug and let it drain. This method did not work on my TrailBlazer because I couldn't get the siphon tube far enough down in the engine; seemed to work well on a1999 Mercedes and my 1990 Cherokee.
I'm defining 'work well' as it appeared to get just as much oil out of the engine as I got before with the draining method.
Always trying new ways of doing old things .. any other opinions of course appreciated.
But then began wondering what about the possibility/likelihood that this errant piece of plastic could somehow hurt the bottom end of the engine (crank, bearings, etc.)? Or over time melt/deteriorate and do something like this??
Before I went through all the trouble of pulling the pan on a motor that has 55K on it, assuming it has no pan leaks, I'd be pulling the drain plug and dip stick tube to "look" for the plastic tube. Get one of those retractable claw pick up tools and do some fishing:
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Your tube 'should' be in the bottom end of the pan anyhow...
You are correct, of course and that's what I've always done ---- until this time.
I can still manage to get underneath and work when I have to .. but as with a couple of longtime most helpful and most knowledgeable others here on this group who have had physical injury I've got to learn to adapt when I can. (You guys know who I'm talking about .. maybe we should start a thread on how to mechanic when injured?!)
And of course one of the reasons I bought and kept as original owner a
90 Cherokee and 82 Scrambler is because I like to mechanic.
I also have quite a few other people who've grown to count on me too .. so if this new method works I will be happier.
And I am cursed with limitless curiosity so I'm always looking for new and different and (maybe)better ways to do things.
You are very correct here too, of course. In this particular instance a friend tried to do this for me.
My solution in the future is to do it myself.
The second reason I do it myself is that I've found very few mechanics (and I was one at a very good Dealership years ago before "mechanics" became "technicians") who can afford to take the time and care and effort that I do and still make a good living.
Thank goodness for this group and helpful, mostly VERY helpful folks here! Because I can ask things I don't know; or about things that have changed. So you are really very much appreciated by me.
OK thanks for the update on the one piece gasket .. I got the one piece gasket (NAPA folks including their regional manager didn't even know they exist).
Got under .. observed that I need to pull the starter; pulled, no big deal.
Now the "engine mount"; Need just a little more clearance and I see it has to come off or at the very least come loose .. so I read the Factory manual and do some Internet searching -- lots of suggestions. One person even uses an engine lift.
The Jeep manual seems to be the easiest way .. though I don't see how it could actually work without doing damage while the Left mount is remains attached. That "Official" Jeep CJ8 manual says: "(a) Place jack under transmission." "(b) Disconnect engine right support cushion bracket from block and raise engine to allow sufficient clearance for oil pan removal."
"Remove oil plan."
So I do all that and VERY TENTATIVELY place my good floor jack under the transmission; lift the jack until it has slight pressure on the tranny. Then I applied a little pressure, a little more, then just a little more. The jack definitely has taken a load; but absolutely no sign of movement at the right engine mount. (Should I jack up some more??)
So I stop; leaving the jack under the transmission.
I decide I must have to actually remove the mount .. so I remove the cross-brace and the mount to frame bolts (jack to tranny still holding pressure). Then I say .. whoa, think this through.
I reread some of the Internet posts and see that at least a couple use a 2/4 board under the front crank pulley for safety. (I guess they put that there after the mount is removed?) Then I think about how much problem it 'might' be to realign the engine/ engine mount/frame. Didn't see a mention of doing anything with the left motor mount. One person mentioned putting the jack under the oil pan with a 2X4 piece of wood for a cushion .. don't see how that works because the jack would have to come off with the motor mount removed in order to remove the pan itself.
This cannot be this difficult, can it??
So now I return again to this group for expertise and to learn how to do it right without damaging the CJ (or myself).
Please .. how do I do this correctly. Please, please .. do it for me like a ** How to R&R the right front motor mount on a CJ8 in order to R&R the oil Pan gasket".
I have pressure on me to have this CJ running by Friday and crunch time is now here?!
You are doing it correctly, you just have to keep on jacking.
You have to unload the front springs before the engine will lift off the mount, so that is up a ways and because it is a three point system, it will drop back in place pretty well.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Unloading the front springs makes great sense; but would also seem to require a lot of force on the jack/transmission and transmission/engine connections. ] So if I keep jacking up on the transmission, with the engine still restrained with the fixed left mount but 'free' from the normally fixed right mount .. then the engine will actually 'rotate' up enough to give me room to work prior to any damage to anything??
All I have to do is make certain the engine is not 'fixed' to the right mount.
And this will not damage the transmission,engine or the still fixed left mount?
I sure don't want to hurt the CJ, of course .. nor me?!
Yes. There are two plates, one on the engine side and one on the 'cushion' or rubber mount that just lift apart. A spray with penetrating oil can't hurt.
I have done it too many times because I kept tearing the engine mounts to pieces when I was mud bogging and pit wall running with my tall skinny 33X9.5's that just don't spin. I still break them on our twisty trails, but not as often.
I had to use a 2x4 plate on top of my jack grabber plate to reach with my 33's and 3" lift.
Then that leads to, I hope to my last question/confirmation.
People have been all over the map with what must be removed; from everything including the support bar to everything; and the 82 Factory Jeep manual says to "Disconnect engine right support cushion bracket from block" (which is about the only bolts on the right mount I've not yet touched, rather not.). Which I assume means those bolts from the mount into the block??
So exactly what bolts do I "really" need to remove? From the block itself, or as I think you are saying here just two bolts; one that is the bolt that is itself in the way causing the problems for dropping the pan and one bolt on the opposite side of the mount from the top down??
Nothing like experience, huh?? Bet it doesn't take you very long to do this any more???
Only slightly lifted, as you might remember .. and in a garage in Florida with a good floor jack. Though I'm tempted to put a wood block between the jack and transmission just to provide a little cushion.
When I get this answer from you I plan to GoFerIt!!
Even though we are located a long way from each other; tomorrow (Thursday) you will likely hear a shout of joy; or a scream of grief. No??
On the frame side, the rubber mount has a long bolt that goes through the frame plate. This one is a pain in the butt to try and line up and would need one large person on a 6' bar to make it go back together...
On the engine side of the rubber mount, there are just two bolts and nuts and one person with a small pry bar or even an ice pick to square the holes can do it. You can point the bolts either up or down.
When I did one, I didn't even remove that mount. I managed to use an open end wrench to get the bolts out from under it. I think it was like a one flat at a time turn. In retrospect, it would have been much faster to loosen the mount and lift the engine.
Oh, you can use thread to lightly 'tie' the new gasket to the pan at the corners for installation ease. If the thread bunches the gasket, just cut it before tightening everything down.
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