2004TJ front end wobble

OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana

44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and adverse weather conditions.

Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump, usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel, travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much of the time.

A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking, and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play.

The car is under extended warranty.

My questions are:

(1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at

30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage? I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road.

(2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much appreciated.

This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting... That'll be fixed on this trip in as well.

Reply to
damgoodespresso
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damgoodespresso did pass the time by typing:

Yep. DW can occur at any age.

Yep. :/

How long has it been since you replaced the steering stabilizer or shocks? Also, throwing a wheel weight can cause DW, but usually it causes the problem to occur at highway speed.

Reply to
DougW

Start by jacking it up and checking for play in the wheel bearings and track rod ends and the control arm bushings. Make sure the wheel nuts are on tight - always a good one :-). The steering damper may be shot, but it's function is to essentially mask the problem. Also have a look for irregular tyre wear indicative of an alignment problem.

Is it lifted at all ?

Reply to
Dave Milne

Doug -

DW at any age: darn.

Steering stabilizer: never replaced. Shocks: never.

I also ready somewhere that tire/wheel balance and alignment can trigger this, but usually there is a root cause, like worn parts somewhere. This happens at like 30 to 35 miles per hour, never happens at highway speeds, and doesn't seem to take effect at slower speeds - you can feel there is a wobble but it doesn't persist, it gets damped out.

I usually look to replace shocks and shock-like components around

50,000 miles - you think the Jeep needs this sooner to stay stable?

And thanks much for the response.

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

Dave -

I'll jack it up this eve and take a closer look. The tyre wear looks okay - I rotated them at 8000, 16000, and then nothing until now, but the wear pattern seems fine.

The vehicle is stock through and through. I wanted it for snow and rains and bad on-road conditions and maybe someday for when I buy a ranch in Colorado. But for now and pretty much until it is paid for, it is highway-pampered.

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

Dave -

sorry man - I wanted to thank you too for responding. Much appreciated.

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

Please, let us know what the Stealership finds. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

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" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote:>

Reply to
L.W.( ßill ) Hughes III

damgoodespresso did pass the time by typing:

It seems so. The problem with DW is it scuffs the wheels, the more scuffing the more likely wobble will happen. Adjusting the toe-in can remove some of the problem but introduces a tendancy to drift or not track straight.

My first run in with DW was just at 30,000 miles. New shocks and stabilizer fixed the problem. The last two times it's hit was at 85mph and was caused by wheels out of ballance.

Reply to
DougW

Bill -

I'll post it. Seems like while there is a lot of information on death wobble, exact resolutions and step-by-step are rare, the postings seem to show possible causes, then things get fixed, then more things get fixed... And then the poster stops posting...

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

Doug -

Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks replacement or just front?

Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver).

SO - to summarize so far:

- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such. Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer for next week.

- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or fan switch relay under warrantee...

- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists.

- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of changing the shocks and stabilizers.

That's what I see so far.

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com did pass the time by typing:

I'd do both. Most places have a discount for buying a whole set. But if it's not in the budget...

Anything but the RS 5000 shocks as they are WAY stiff according to what I've heard here. I run the edelbrock IAS shock and have been pleased with the handling. The adjustable ones are neet, both edelbrock and rancho make them. Not much need unless you like to play with the suspension settings though. Possibly DT3000.

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they are a bit on the pricy side. My opinions on shocks will not quite be best for you. The ZJ is a bit heavier than your TJ. But my driving style is agressive so a harder ride is more to my liking.

Sounds like your on the right track. You should also check the sway bar bushings and track bar bushings while your under there.

Reply to
DougW

I've just encountered DW in the last couple weeks. Now I'm ever conscious of my steering and any and all bumps I'm hitting. Of course everything seems bigger than what I thought of it before the DW.

Both my "events" occured while going at a good clip down some rather bumpy roads....then all of a sudden I could feel the oscillation start and then both front wheels were just dancing to their own tunes and I had to slow down to 20kph to get them settled!

Anyhow, my steering dampener seems to be leaky....but not sure if it's that or the dirted oil the 'tards at Cantire spilled over my engine! Hosers!

Anyways, I'm looking in to see if this job is over my head or not. I've got some half decent mechanical skills but haven't dealth with tie-rods or bushings or such.... I've got my service manual....so some clues on what to do...just don't have the tools (yet ;)

looking forward to see what you find out!

Reply to
Steve

Reply to
L.W.( ßill ) Hughes III

Thanks Bill...

Has Mike Romain gone MIA? I've been away for a few weeks but haven't seen any posts by him in a while!

Reply to
Steve

Reply to
L.W.( ßill ) Hughes III

I had an 03' Jeep Wrangler X that started with the DW's at around

35k and my first encounter was on the highway in rush hour traffic at around 50mph. I discovered that if I accelerated rapidly through 50mph to 60 or higher, it was not much of a problem. But in traffic if I had to enter the 50mph mark slowly then I was done for. The stealership could not find anything wrong with the vehicle, other than to tell me that I had to rotate my tires every 3,000 miles. I was running Goodyear MTR's and at 45k those tires were toast. So I switched to a street tire (BFG radial long trail T/A)and have never had a problem since, the car runs so smooth that its hard to believe your actually in a Jeep. Of course I know that those street tires made me look like a wimp. But with all the highway mileage I was putting on that car I had no choice. My current vehicle is a Jeep Rubicon and it also has MTR's so I'm waiting for the DW's to begin soon.

David KORL PP-ASEL

Reply to
CFLav8r

DW is caused by a combination of things and is actually a problem with vehicles besides the Jeep too. It is normally 'triggered' by either a sharp impact, jolt, out of balance tire, or out of round/bent wheel. One of those usually triggers it. Then what often lets it fully develop into true Death Wobble is something loose in the front end. The most common cause is the lower mounting bolt holding the trackbar to the axle is too loose. It won't SEEM loose if you grab it and try to move it but that doesn't mean it's not loose enough to allow DW to develop. To make sure, tighten that bolt to 55 ft-lbs.

Then loose ball joints, bad bushings, even a bad (loose) hub can allow it to develop. Sometimes even the toe-in can be off enough to encourage DW. But tire balance and a loose trackbar mounting bolt is the combination that seems to be the most common cause. The tire cannot be balanced to just "good enough" when this problem happens, the front tires must be 'perfectly' balanced.

The steering stabilizer, if bad, can seem to "cause" death wobble but even when bad, it's never actually the root cause of DW, it just keeps it at bay when it's in good condition.

Good luck, this problem is fixable. My TJ had SEVERE Death Wobble 5-6 years ago for about a month until I was able to figure out the cause (tire balance and loose trackbar mounting bolt). I haven't had DW since.

Jerry

Steve wrote:

Reply to
Jerry Bransford

tires are out of round you need new ones!

Reply to
IsellJeeps

Jerry -

Much thanks. I am so glad to hear there is a specific cause and cure. I'll check the trackbar tonight.

I took the Jeep to my (non-dealership) mechanic to have the tires rotated and balanced. What this did was change the wobble significantly - instead of starting from the driver's side wheel and proceeding through the top (feels like the top anyway) of the front suspension, that same kind of bump doesn't do anything. Instead, now a more shallow ridge-type bump hitting both wheels starts the oscillation and it remains in the bottom of the suspension evenly distributed between both wheels. Unfortunately this never damps out and requires slowing alot before it stops.

But it changed. Next is to check the trackbar bolt, tighten as necessary, check the rest of the front end for anything unusual while it is up off the ground, then back to the mechanic tomorrow morning to insist on perfect balance on the front tires and to have the alignment checked.

I'll keep updating as this goes. Appreciate the feedback.

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

Sounds like tires could be one of the causes. That would be a shame, the Goodyear MTRs still look very good on the car. I'll keep this in mind if I can't get the balance correct or if I find the tire is out of round as another poster suggested.

I am so hoping that tightening the trackbar will stop this.

--doug

Reply to
damgoodespresso

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