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Aluminum Radiator

OK.........installed my Aluminum radiator from Ron Davis Racing Products last weekend..........Guess I put just a little too much faith into "It will just bolt in". Not complaining - nothing major - everything that was not just "R&R", using 20/20 hindsight, should have been expected. Allow me to give the observations of a mechanic @ the level of advanced rookie (I repeat - not complaints - It Looks Good just sitting in my TJ - it may be awhile before I get over how good it looks & be able to leave the hood down while it is parked in my drive way).

1) sealing - my old foam that sat between the radiator & the AC condenser needed to be replaced. I haven't been able to find any locally (especially on a Sunday before Labor Day), but the original one would not have worked if it was good - the fins sit a little higher & therefore are still above where the foam would end (very minor point - just needs more research & attention on my part). 2) sealing - there is now a space between my fan shroud & the radiator. The old shroud sat against the old radiator..............more foam or maybe a piece of rubber. 3) fitting - ran into a couple of minor problems in this area. I pulled out the old radiator & then placed the new one in to the space, and @ that time realized that the new radiator is a little over a half inch thicker than the old one (not really a bad thing - probably a pretty good thing). I looked down & the spacer between my fan & the water pump is shorter than I expected - (another area for research) - my main concern, though, is that there is approximately a little over an inch between the shaft of the fan clutch & the fins. This would only be of a major concern, I believe, if there was a problem with the motor mounts, or possibly during extreme flex (don't know how much I need to worry about that). I panicked & called Bill - & after talking to him, I believe that the fan blades are a reasonable distance from the fins, while also in a good position in the shroud. Another problem came about when tightening down the bolts that hold the radiator in - the rails were not flush with the bracket of the Jeep, and the rail of the radiator was drawn in a small amount. It didn't bother me until about 3:30AM (in my sleep). I called Tim @ Ron Davis & he said that I should place some rubber washers, or something between the radiator & the JP? The last difficulty came about when I started to attach the shroud to the radiator. I lined up the holes in the shroud with the holes in the radiator, & realized that I forgot to take the nut plates off of the old radiator...........not so........the holes in the old radiator were tapped - so I went to the local OSH & got some nuts, bolts, & washers - & found that my short fat hands did not fit very well between the rails of the radiator frame to hold the nut (had to call my wife & neighbor for assistance). I think that is about it - my major concerns are distance between the fan clutch shaft & the fins, and the attachment of the radiator to the JP. So far, it seems to be running fine. When it was brand new it would get up to 210F & stay there. Lately it would go about 2 needle widths above 210F with the AC on & did overheat one time (80mph - AC set to max - then cooled down when I shut off the AC & slowed down for a couple of miles)..........now it has been staying right @ 210F.
Reply to
Carlo Jr.
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Also.........wanted to say "thanks" to Bill.......

Reply to
Carlo Jr.

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

You were there to comfort me in a time of stress....... BTW - what do you think about 210F. It was there when it was new, & the local dealer thought it was normal, so I accepted that - but, lately, so many other people freak out when they hear 210F??

Reply to
Carlo Jr.

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

If you've got the stock 195 t/stat in it, then 210 would be in the normal range.

-- Old Crow '95 YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech

Reply to
Old Crow

Figure the thermostat isn't going to open until 195, then 210 isn't much above that....

Also figure the odds of the gauge being 100% accurate are close to 0%...

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"Carlo Jr." wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Carlo,

210 just plain makes me nervous, but unless you have a Chevy 355, or a siamesed bore 400 with 11:1 comp, it is probably normal.

RR

Reply to
Red Racer

Crap, I start worrying when I get up to 250 or so in my CJ7, I need more than a 2 core rad too.... Winch and lights blocking the air flow to the rad. I then slow down to let her cool down. No problems under 70 mph or holding 65 on a hot day, but run her at 80 to keep up to traffic in the summer and well... No issues in the winter...

Same for our Cherokee, twice I have had the 'idiot' light come on from several hours of low range in the hot weather. Have to stop and let her cool. Never in the winter.

Both have never boiled over or even started burping after shutdown, so that temp was the max you can get away with.

I must be running the right coolant/antifreeze mix to hit the red zone and red light and not have her boil.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Red Racer wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Have you considered adding an auxiliary radiator? Even something as simple as a heater core and fan will help. Of course mounting is another issue. It's not like your running a sandrail.

Or put some vents in the hood like the 5.9ZJ did. That would lower underhood temperature. Actually somewhere out there is an install using the old direct-air vent.. the one that popped up in front of the windscreen, but set on the hood to provide a large heat vent.

Just a couple of random thoughts

Reply to
DougW

My problems started when I put the winch on. I then drilled two holes in the roller fairlead top and added two Hella Black Magic lights there. It looks really good, but....

I have air flow issues and really need a 3 or better a 4 core rad to compensate...

The hellas are too big to put inboard on the bumper next to the winch without blocking the front signal lights and with my lift and 33's, outboard on the bumper is dangerous to the lights. Those Black Magics are freaking expensive lights that were left to me in an off roading Jeeper and long term roommate's Will (May Bruce RIP) and I want to keep them safe. He left a set for my wife and her Cherokee too. And 'my' Warn winch...

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Reply to
Mike Romain

On some of the GM cars I work on, the cooling fan doesn't even come on until like 225 degrees. Then it goes off at 195. That's what the pressure cap on the radiator is for, to keep the boiling point of the coolant higher than 225 .

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM

Reply to
Old Crow

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

They make 210's?

Hmmm, that might be worth looking into for a winter t-stat. A CJ can use all the heat it can get in the winter up here.

Mike

"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Why? What is wrong with 210? That's what mine tends to run at and I have never had a problem. Is there something I need to be worried about at this temp?

(And anyway, if you don't like 210, couldn't you just put in a much lower thermostat - say 160 - and solve the problem quickly? Doesn't seem like an inherent problem with the radiator.)

Reply to
Joshua Nelson

Ok, remedial question time. What is special about aluminum? Why would an aluminum radiator be any better than a non-aluminum radiator? Is aluminum an especially good heat conductor or something?

Reply to
Joshua Nelson

It doesn't work like that Joshua.

The thermostat only controls how 'cold' the engine runs, it has nothing to do with how hot it runs.

The t-stat holds the coolant from circulating until the engine warms up to the minimum temp needed for good running. In the case of a 4.0 engine that is 195 minimum. Any colder and the computer stays in 'choke' mode and the engine will just drink gas and run like crap.

It also controls how much heat you have inside for winter driving. Some folks change to a hotter t-stat in the winter to get better heat. 10 deg in the coolant temp can make a big difference inside.

210 is perfectly normal. A 50/50 mix of coolant and water is good to something like 260 deg or so with a pressure cap on the rad before it boils over.

If the engine is going to overheat, a colder t-stat has 0 impact on that, it is a mechanical issue somewhere else. Unless the t-stat is broken closed, then it just plain warms up and boils over immediately.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Reply to
Mike Romain

I have a fixed fan that just roars.

My winch and lights are blocking the flow to the rad and it is only a 2 core rad.

I have no issues in cold weather so am going to wait and get a 4 core rad next spring. Some of the vanes in mine are coming loose, so it is time to think on a new rad.

Thanks for the idea though. I have thought of an aux 'pusher' fan on front of my rad, that would be easy to do because my rad sits all by itself wide open when I open my 'hood'. LOL! I have a one piece 'glass front end that just lifts up out of the way. To change the plugs, I can just sit on the front tire and wrench away.

I want/like to to fix the cause, not the symptoms...

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Joshua Nels>

Reply to
Mike Romain

Approximately 9/11/03 11:33, Joshua Nelson uttered for posterity:

An aluminum radiator of equal cooling capability will weigh a bit less than half of a copper style. The aluminum is also considerably stiffer than copper, allowing thinner tube walls for the coolant tubes...so the ratio of wasted metal to coolant is less. A welded aluminum radiator can transfer heat to the fins just a bit better than the soldered connection on a copper style.

On the other hand, any doofus can repair a copper radiator with inexpensive materials and tools. Repairing an aluminum one requires welding with skills appropriate for aluminum.

The aluminum radiators also require different coolant mixes to avoid internal clogging.

As far as intrinsic heat tranfer or thermal conductivity, copper is roughly twice as efficient as aluminum...however as noted above, in a copper radiator, the fins are usually soldered to the tubes, and the copper/lead/copper junction is *claimed* [by folks selling aluminum radiators] to have higher thermal resistance than welded aluminum. Given the small amounts of lead used, I suspect this is more marketing than physics.

Reply to
Lon Stowell

Aluminum conducts heat slightly better than brass. The big difference is in the eye of the buyer though in my mind.... ;-)

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Joshua Nels>

Reply to
Mike Romain

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