First automatic

My new Grand Cherokee Limited (the one with all the trick differentials) is my first automatic, and I'm baffled by the shifting program (of the complete lack of one) in 4L.

I'm no off-road expert, but I've driven lots of trucks off road for work and play. usually, once I get the technique and timing down for a given vehicle, things go ok. I use 4L mostly to control speed, but also to finesse stream crossings, rock fields, or slimy climbs - places where smoothness is rewarded and jerky moves can make me have a bad day.

But the Cherokee in 4L undriveable. Things are sort of ok as long as I stay in one gear, but shifting down is like driving into a concrete wall (I was even worried about tripping the airbags), and shifting up is like being rammed from behind by a semi.

I've tried mightily to match engine speed between the time I select a gear and the time that the computer gets around to actually engaging the clutch, but the driver has no control over the timing of the shift. It just happens sometime after the gear lever is bumped. I haven't ever been able to do anything but make things worse.

Here's my complaint: the damn thing is run by a computer that knows exactly how fast each wheel is turning, how fast the engine is turning. It knows damn well what is going to happen when it bangs in the clutch, but it does it anyway. I'm medium-certain that this vehicle has throttle-by-wire, so it would be a simple programming exercise to match everything up before engaging the clutch, and the whole thing could happen more smoothly than on a manual operated by any but the most expert off-roader.

But they evidently didn't even try.

While I was on the road this summer, I talked to a lot of dealer service guys about this. Their attack approach was amazingly uniform (I think DC must send them all to some central campus to learn how to do it) - 1.) Emasculation - "You don't know how to drive off road. Maybe you should stick to pavement around the mall," 2.) Denial - "No, you don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't do that," 3.) Obfuscation - "You're not supposed to shift between 4H and 4L while you're driving," 4.) Guilt - "You're abusing this fine vehicle. It's intended for driving on pavement around the mall," 5.) They-All-Do-That - "They all do that," and finally 6.) Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L."

So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on the brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of trouble.

But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L.

Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the fact that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step" door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess maybe they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization.

Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks.

Cheers, Fred Klingener

Reply to
Fred Klingener
Loading thread data ...

You're a pretty good writer. Send a letter to one of the four wheel drive magazines. I agree that a "girl's Jeep" shouldn't be so hard to drive.

I don't recall having this sort of problem with my '89 Suburban, with the automatic transmission and Command-Trac style transfer case. On the other hand, I don't recall ever attempting to change ranges in it while moving. I suspect that although your complaints are legitimate, you can get used to driving this vehicle in time. Do not expect much in the way of engine braking off road, and do not use 4L unless you know you will be going real slow. I do recall shifting from 4H to 4L, while moving, in my manual transmission Wrangler. I won't do that again soon. I do like your metaphor of driving into a concrete wall.

Earle

Reply to
Earle Horton

Do you by any chance have a CB or other transmitter on board?

Just a thought, but if the power or antenna cables run anywhere near the shift control module, they will screw it up 9 times out of 10 to the point of a TJ auto even hitting neutral every time one gent keyed up his CB.

There is a TSB out on the proper routing for the wiring I believe.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >
Reply to
Mike Romain

Reply to
L.W.( ßill ) Hughes III

Hey Fred, Loved your post, really. Well written, informative and entertaining. From one 'girls jeep' owner to another I wish I could hug ya....

KJKate

2O|||||||O5 Liberty 6.) : Get-Outa-Here-Kid-There're-People-In-Line-Behind-You - "You're supposed to : come to a complete stop before you change gears in 4L." : : So far, I've selected 7.) None-Of-The-Above, stayed in 4H, and relied on the : brakes with the ABS to control speed. So far, I've managed to stay out of : trouble. : : But I payed a shitload of money for this car, gulled, I suppose, by the : "Trail Rated" business, and I expected a functioning 4L. : : Believe me. I understand the overlay of marketing hype, and I get the fact : that the Cherokee isn't a real off-roader, with its leather, its : take-off-your-shoes-and-put-on-these-paper-slippers carpets, its "no-step" : door jambs, and its frilly plastic skirts. (I was buying some stuff in a : logging equipment store in northern BC, talking up the zoomy drivetrain on : the Cherokee, the guy came out, looked in the driver's side window and : recoiled, "It's a GIRL'S Jeep!"). I had expected (hoped?) that there would : be some moles in the organization that cared about the basics. Guess maybe : they all took early-out packages during the last reorganization. : : Any suggestions? I mean besides trading it in on a truck with sticks. : : Cheers, : Fred Klingener : :
Reply to
KJ.Kate

Fred.

You start off by saying you have a "GRAND CHEROKEE". Then in the body you keep calling it a Cherokee! There's a big difference between my Cherokee with it's ASIN/WARNER AW4 auto tranny and your Grand with it's Chrysler tanny.

JoBo

Reply to
Jo Bo

Fred Klingener did pass the time by typing:

darn. there goes my contribution. :(

Actually, I've found that if you turn off the overdrive that helps in 4W low.

The other thing is that new transmissions need time to break in. The ZJ when I first got it would rip your __ out in 4low but now it just bumbles along. Being computer controlled, the dealership might be able to adjust some of the shift points a bit to help.

Reply to
DougW

Reply to
L.W.( ßill ) Hughes III

I am somewhat confused about his complaint.

If he is trying to shift into 4Lo at any engine speed above idle he should certainly expect a sudden jolt and perhaps some grinding from the 4Lo non-synchromeshed gears

When I was in Canada this summer in my WJ (with Select-Trac) I was in 4Hi for the smoother parts and in 4Lo for the fun parts (please see Mike Romain's excellent Labor Day pix) and do not recall any jerking other than the initial shift into 4Lo but then I wasn't trying to set any speed records either.

When the going was rough I was in 4Lo in 1st gear and when the roadway smoothed for an extended bit I would slide the gear shifter to 2, 3, or sometimes into Drive. The only 'unusual' effect was caused by the 2.71:1 reduction..... The acceleration/deceleration is proportionally greater and should be expected because that is the result of torque multiplication .... that is the reason you wanted to be in 4Lo in the first place.

I'm not sure how to comment on your shifter mishaps, perhaps you are just not used to 'gateless" shifters. The shifter, in my WJ, operates in the same manner as every automatic I have driven since the pushbutton and thumb lever days.

That being said it is certainly different than the throws requires to change gears in a manual transmission.

How fast are you trying to go in 4Lo?

Mike's Pix

formatting link

Reply to
Billy Ray

Perhaps the new WK Grand Cherokee's are different.

We know he has a Limited so we know it has a V-8 of unknown size.. He says it has all the fancy differentials so perhaps it is the Quadra-Trac II.

Perhaps if we factor in the V-8's power, the 3.73 gearing, and the Vari-Lok differentials there is considerably more of a 'jerk' than shifting gears in

4Lo than you might expect in a 4 cylinder Wrangler with a stick..
Reply to
Billy Ray

I had no problems with my 4 watt GE handheld CB.

The radio sat on the shifter console and the remote antenna's magnetic mount was either in the center of the roof between the rear doors when on-road or in the center rear of the hood (cowl) when off-road so as to not be knocked over by a low branch.

The only special steps I took in power wiring or antenna routing was to make it so neither would get snagged accidentally.

Reply to
Billy Ray

Yeah. That was the 'Obfuscation' part the dealer service guys tried to throw in to avoid answering the questions. I'm only talking about what happens in 4L here.

On the GCL, the computer manages the 4H -> 4L shift, and it's pretty fussy about pre-conditions (0-3mph, transmission in neutral), so there's no upset at all there.

Sure.

This is the first car I ever drove with the motorcycle shifter, so I'm certainly 'not used to it', but I don't have a clue how I could use it differently - click it up or down and wait for the computer to feel like shifting.

I just don't seem to have a problem when I can get to the clutch, shifter, and the throttle. I think I've got that down. I just want the computer to do the same thing. Actually, I want it to do it better.

Where it was most irritating was when I was cruising along in 4L/2 at a few mpg, then at the top of a stream embankment, shifting to 1. I'd head down the embankment struggling to catch the breath knocked out of me when I slammed into the seatbelts.

Another poster suggested things would improve as the transmission broke in. I sure hope so.

Thanks, Fred

Reply to
Fred Klingener

No CB, and no other transmitter. Great idea though.

Thanks, Fred

Reply to
Fred Klingener

It's the GCL with small V8 and Quadra-Drive II, which as far as I can tell, is the Quadra-Trac II transfer case with the pair of 'fancy' Vari-Lok axle differentials, and whatever software it takes to run it all.

And this may be the root of the problem. All that stuff worked surperbly and absolutely transparently. I don't think I spun a wheel all summer, even on some pretty uneven, slimy stuff. Maybe I want the rest of it to be perfect too.

Too greedy.

Oddly, none of the dealer service guys suggested it was the 'jerk' behind the wheel.

Fred

Reply to
Fred Klingener

I hope you don't think I was referring to you as a 'jerk'. The first time I pulled my WJ into 4Lo while moving was a surprising experience that I do not want to repeat.

Do you have to pull a lever to change the transfer case or is it pushbutton?

formatting link

Reply to
Billy Ray

Jeep's Quadra-Trac II sounds like they are trying to duplicate the Audi quattros you are probably familiar with.

Reply to
Billy Ray

Fred,

Are you familiar with this web site? It contains a plethora of useful information.

formatting link

Reply to
Billy Ray

Good one.

Thanks, Fred

Reply to
Fred Klingener

Reply to
L.W.( ßill ) Hughes III

--snippy--

They are trained not to say that. I can assure you though, that they were all thinking it. You bought the vehicle, they got their money, why are you bothering them now?

Earle

Reply to
Earle Horton

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.