Independent Mechanics

I use to feel bad about charging $35 an hour for labor when I worked on cars. Maybe u should have looked for a "shadetree" mechanic like me. In all the yrs my father and I worked on cars, we never overcharged anyone( unless they deserved it). I like to think that I continued the tradition. I am not a "certified" mechanic and don't have all the fancy equipment that is needed these days. But this guy looks like he charges the same as a dealer would! Newer vehicles require more expert care. But I have found that some auto parts stores will diagnose some things for free. If the "Check/Service Engine" light was on, then you could have taken it to the parts store and they might have been able to tell u the problem.

But I do agree with you, prices are going up and sometimes the quality of the work goes down. I just hope they fixed the problem correctly.

I'm in Southeast MI, how about the name of the shop?

Just a question on the "upsold" comment. If he hadn't told your daughter or wife about the worn serpentine belt, and she left with it later breaking, and stranding her somewhere, or worse causing an accident from lack of power steering, would you have been mad at the garage for not telling you it had a worn serpentine belt?

Due to the latest MAP guidelines, most places are obligated to tell of what they find, it is up to the customer to make a (n) (informed) decision.

Spdloader

Your looking at "standard labor rates" or "book" that almost all places use to determine labor costs. Yes, it's more than what it should take to do the job, but includes prep, install, cleanup, rework, etc. The mechanic can make more or less depending on how good/quick they are.

Not disagreeing with you on the cost, just clarifying where it comes from.

Thing is, most places I go take the diagnostics off the bill when you get the work done there.

Or you should have diagnosed and repaired it properly the first time.

Dont forget that not only does he have to have a high-quality scanner that handles nearly all new cars,

to update the scanner twice a year for about $995And he also has to verify that the old part was indeed faulty (and that the replacement is not defective) with another tool, updates for it cost another $400. I'd say you got a square deal. You don't like it, buy the tools.

The $82 is on the low side for this area (Phoenix, AZ.)

The labor charge is as per the flat rate manual and any labor charge includes a LOT more that replacing the sensor. It's the time from start of a job to finish of a job.

Check around, you were not overcharged.

Why not? I'll bet his mechanics shop at the same stores and pay the same prices as the dealers mechanics do, why should they earn less?

the shop is AE Autocare in Livonia and until now I have been very happy with them.

my first job was a kid-car, a '95 escort with front brakes acting up. took it in and they called me and said that the calipers were hanging up on corroded pins. that for about $250 they could replace them or for $100 they would take them apart and put the pins on a wire wheel and put it back together with some good lube. i was delighted because the car was only worth about $500 !!

i know the serp belt needs replacing, i'll do it when i replace the cracked exhaust manifold. but i'll do that on my own time, not when i'm leaving on a business trip and have about 20 minutes to give it a quick once over and a lick and a promise.

in this case there wasn't a check engine light flashing and if i had more time i would have gone to autozone and scanned it in the parking lot.

he didn't offer (at least yet, I'm going to pick it up in a few minutes) to drop the diagnostics. the bone i'm picking is 'standard times' that don't vary by vehicle. on this tj it's really only a 5 minute job to repace the MAP sensor.

with some time available, i'm my own shade tree mechanic, i've got the FSM (props to the alt.binaries.e-books.technical newsgroup) and basic tools. just didn't have the chance this time with going out of town.

gripe done ... peace

reboot

Mitchell time is 1.4 hours for system diagnosis You do the math on how many jobs it takes to break even on a 6-8 thousand dollar scanner.

Mitchell time for MAP sensor replacement is .5 hours

I don't think you get it.

Sucks having to pay for professional services, eh?

A ridiculous statement with no basis in fact.

Nowdays, this factory training amounts to nothing more than the mechanic sitting at a computer terminal in the dealership playing 'guess the answer.' If real live instructor training, odds are it's a contract teacher from/at a local technical college.

Dealerships charge more per hour because their overhead costs are higher.

job done, car runs well.

they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't have the tools or experience for.

just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily and quickly done if I were in town.

if your on the west-side of metro detroit i do recommend this guy.

Good for them.

Good for them.

Well, that _does_ appear to be the case here.

And what about when she (daughter) was in town?

Seems to be; your venting is/was you taking your inabilities out on that repair shop.

I've been willing to pay more at an independent to get mechanics with a pulse and a service manager who is an actual mechanic rather than a business major or thinly disguised sales type. Even better is if the shop owner is the service manager or a very good mechanic as well. Have had excellent luck, including one shop where the owner had the Motor Trend trophy awarded to Volvo, and another where the owner raced Mazda rotaries. Sure wish the heck I could find an independent that knows Jeep drivetrains... the local dealer is OK, but have only encountered two dealers in my life that were as good as an independent.

Reminds me of the story told of Tesla and Westinghouse.

In the early days of electric power generation, Tesla got worked over pretty good by G. Westinghouse regarding patents. After Tesla left the company, Westinghouse installed some new, humongous generators at the then-new Niagara Falls plant and could never keep them on line because they overheated in a hurry. Finally, they called in Tesla. He showed up, as the story goes, borrowed a step ladder and pulled a piece of chalk from his pocket which he used to draw a one foot square on the case of the generator. "Cut a hole there" he told them and left. The generator then ran fine.

He sent a bill to Westinghouse for $10,000 and old George had a fit - ten large was serious money in the late 1800's. Told Tesla he couldn't pay that kind of money for drawing a chalk square, so Tesla re-submitted the bill: Drawing chalk square - $10. Knowing WHERE to draw chalk square - $9,990.

You pay for a lot more than what shows when you get professional service. Sometimes you feel shorted but I've chased too many bugs for too many hours and thrown too many parts at problems where competent mechanics provided the correct solution in a few minutes.

Agreed. A lot of service advisors/managers suck.

If people really want to lessen the cost of car repairs they need to stop buying cars that require a gazillion very expensive special tools. They also need to stop messing with the a/c system and dumping in oddball gases. They need to stop buying cars with options out the ying yang. They need to stop the Gov from mandating expensive safety and emissions requirements. And finally they need to buy cars that are all alike...or they need to stop driving. I didn't drive the price of car repair over 60 bucks an hour, the cost of staying in business did.

I thought $270 bucks for those repairs was more than reasonable.