newbie question

flatfoot2 did pass the time by typing:

That's ok.. this group is fairly disturbed anyway. :)

Hard to say. I've had a liberty as a rental and found it to be acceptable but a bit on the small side even though I'm only 6'3"

190, give or take the donuts. My suggestion is before you buy one, rent it from enterprise or such and drive it for weekend trip somewhere. Get a good solid 2-3 hours behind the wheel.

Might want to take a trip to Ikea and measure some of the boxes that stuff comes in. You might find the liberty doesn't have enough inside space. Heck, I drive a ZJ and it's pressed to carry anything longer than

8' squeezed between the tailgate and front window.

Just remember that 4wd will get you going faster but every car stops the same.

4wd also has some interesting tendencies on slippery surfaces. If you have access to a driving range skid pan I'd suggest learning the limits there.

Hey! I resemble that remark.

a bit on the small side even though I'm only 6'3"

from enterprise or such and drive it for weekend trip

A very, very good suggestion. Also, trade off with your wife and make sure that she is also comfortable with driving it. My folks discovered with their new car (not a Jeep) that the passenger and drivers seats are different inside, although they look the same. Passenger seat is no where near as comfortable.

Have you sat in the Liberty? I wouldn't think you would be comfortable. I would recommend a Chevy Tahoe.

Wife and I took a liberty for a test drive, I'm 6'1", she's 5'6", I didn't have any problems, but she had to move the seat so far forward to use peddles that when she went to get out her leg hit the steering column, so she had to move seat back, as this was going to be mainly her daily driver, moving the seat eveytime she got in and out wouldn't be practicle, but as for power, of the 4 vehicles we took for a test drive it had the most, felt like I could squeal the tires if I wanted to, other 3 were a Jeep TJ, Chevy Tracker and Ford Escape.

The Highlander (HL) is closer in comparison to the Grand Cherokee than it is the Liberty (LIB). The HL is roughly 10" longer than the LIB which translates into better ride and more cargo room. Seating accomadation is almost identicle with the LIB giving an extra 3/4" in headroom. You would think it would be more considering the LIB is 3" taller than the HL!

Power and fuel economy both go to the HL. Comparing 4 cyl. models, the HL claims 10 more HP, and is the same 165 lbft torque at 4000 rpm. The V6 comparison numbers are even more impressive for the HL 3.3L 230HP vs. the LIB 3.7 210HP. The HL is one of the most fuel efficiant SUV's on the market at 22/27 city/hwy for the 2.4L and 17/22 for the 3.3L. The LIB is 21/26 for the 2.4 and 17/22 for the 3.7. Keep in mind the HL has a higher rated HP and is roughly 160 lbs heavier than the LIB.

Fit and finish of the HL is light years better than the LIB.

Resale value leans heavily toward the HL and can erase the initial price difference (roughly $2000 more) if you decide to sell or trade within 1-7 years.

The LIB gets a bad rap off-road among Jeep owners because of it's independent front suspension (as is 99% of the market) but it is still one of the best (albeit crude and outdated) 4 wheel drive systems. It's in 4wd or it's not, simple and dependable. Can't say anything good or bad about the HL off-road, I don't think anybody has ever seen one perform on anything more rugged the a poorly maintained gravel parking lot.

If I had to decide between these vehicles for your criteria (daily driver, no off-road), I'd go for the HL. Toyota is reknown for excellent customer satisfaction, top notch quality, reasonable maintenance and repair costs and outstanding resall value.

-Brian

Thanks to all responders. My wife and I both sat in numerous vehicles, and these are two vehicles, we would both be happy to drive, and both be reasonably comfortable in. A lot of vehicles, as someone suggested, she had to pull the seat up so far, her chest was in the steering wheel, like on the crv. Some of the suggestions of vehicles in a response, are out of the question, because it is a matter of space available for parking. My wife loves the rav4, but no way am I fitting in it. LOL>

THE MAIN question I am trying to get answered, is if the general chassis and suspension on a jeep lib, is heavier duty then the toyota highlanders. Since I tend to drive mostly at night, over a lot of city roads that are just plain crap, with potholes, and my size, I want something that I think might be more heavy duty. If the liberty meets that description, I will go for it, but if in the groups opinion, the suspensions are of the same reliabilty, I would be going for the highlander. I hope I am not confusing anyone. On my dodge van, I was always having suspension problems(front end work being done), and not sure if it was because of my weight(again I am a big muscular type of guy, around 270 lbs- and I sometimes have two fellow officers in the car with me), or just the general crappiness of cars. Thanks for any ideas and thoughts you can share with me.

flatfoot2 wrote: > THE MAIN question I am trying to get answered, is if the general > chassis and suspension on a jeep lib, is heavier duty then the toyota > highlanders.

The Liberty suspension is much more heavy duty than the Highlander. Think truck vs car. If you really want to compare apples to apples, look at the Toyota 4Runner.

The Highlander has independent MacPherson strut suspension front and rear. Pretty much the same suspension and drive train as in the Toyota Camry. In many ways, the Highlander is just a Camry with extra ground clearance and all-wheel drive.

Vehicle specs:

The Liberty has a solid (live) rear axle with a coil-link suspension much like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or Wrangler. Liberty has a 5000 lb towing capacity vs 3500 for the Highlander.

Around here we like to crap on the Liberty's independent front suspension for it's compromised off-road performance (as opposed to a solid live axle), but it still has a respectable 8" of wheel travel and a much beefier design than the car-like strut suspension of the Highlander.

On the flat stuff, the Highlander with it's stiffer spring rates likely has better handling, stability, and a more even ride, but the Liberty should stand up to much more pothole abuse and be more comfortable on really rough roads. As for general reliability and safety ratings, the Liberty is consistently near the top it's class and beats out all other Jeeps in every listing I've seen.

If you go for the Liberty, choose the 'SelecTrac' full time 4WD option over the standard 'CommandTrac' part time 4WD. It's easier to use when slippery conditions are intermittent and still gives you the option of locking the center differential for 'true' 4WD. Also consider the 'TracLoc' rear differential limited slip option for improved traction. Another interesting option available this year on Liberty is the 2.8L Common Rail Diesel:

Steve

Ont hat subject, anyone else's TJ have substantially less legroom on the psgr side?

Don't know for sure? My wife is short and that's where she's riding in my TJ. My seat is behind the steering wheel..ha..ha. Tom T

I love that picture.

The recall only applies to vehicles produced through March 2003. The OP is interested in a new one.

Steve

I would venture to say that all TJ's have the same amount of room on the passenger side.

Less than the driver's side? I think so -- due to the glove box and that handle being there. I only sit on the driver's side, though :-).

-D

Honestly -- do you think an extra 70 - 80 lbs over the average person's weight is going to affect the suspension of a vehicle?? That isn't even the weight of a passenger. Think about it. If 80 lbs is going to have any noticeable affect on the suspension of a vehicle, it likely either only has

2 wheels or is powered by batteries and is for 3 yrs and up.

Your height and width, on the other hand, will dramatically make a difference in how COMFORTABLE the vehicle is. My wife's Cherokee, for example, just seems so skinny inside compared to other vehicles we've owned. Doesn't bother us, but I can image a wide guy feeling claustraphobic (sp?). Also, in her XJ I feel like my head is about to touch the roof (6'1"-6'2"... depends on who measures me).

My 2 cents...

Eric

All i know is the liberty with that new diesel they have, looking pretty good to me.