Switching Head bolts

Just had my engine rebuilt. New cam, new crank 10/10, new bearings, new pistons and rings, flywheel balanced and all married up to my 4.0L head out the door.

Now the R&R guy has noticed one of the head bolts is out of position for the power steering bracket so he needs to switch them.

Is there any problem switching two head bolts which reside side by side without going through the entire torquing sequence again?

That is, can these two bolts be taking out, switched, put back in and torqued down without any problems?

R&R guy says no problem.

Thanks,

Bill

Reply to
William Oliveri
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I don't know where some of these 'mechanics' come from....

He put the 'wrong' bolt in the hole.....

Man oh man, if it wasn't for bad you wouldn't have any luck at all would you? ;-)

I for one most certainly would not accept a rebuilt engine with an already 'blown' head gasket.

Head gaskets only compress once.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

William Oliveri wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

I've done it hundreds of times and there won't be a problem switching the bolts and just re-torquing those two. In all probability it's one of the outside bolts which are the last to be torqued in the sequence anyways.

Reply to
Steve G

The 'mechanic' is a full time engine rebuilder. I just called him and he said no problem to switch the two bolts. Just torque it down to the correct value and you'll be set. He's the one warranting the job so I'm happy.

Thanks,

Bill

Reply to
William Oliveri

He already has a mis match on the head gasket Steve.

He is putting a 4.0 head onto a 4.2 block. That makes it a 'twitchy' installation to start.

'I' would not take a chance on blowing a new engine for something that dumb.

Maybe that is just me, but.... If I forked out in the order of $2K plus I most certainly would not take a chance on a head gasket that 'might or might not' be compromised.

I have assembled and have seen assembled a whole pile of engines over the years and most people, let alone 'mechanics' stop and think when they find 2 head bolts that are nutted studs instead of bolts.

It seem 'logical' that these 'strange' bolt like things should go somewhere special eh?

One is for the bracket, the other goes on the back drivers side corner for the ground strap to bolt onto.

In all due fairness poor Bill's 'mechanic' is kinda on the brain dead side to just put it together wrong without checking wouldn't you say?

Mike

Steve G wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

Mike, the mechanic didn't put the thing together. The rebuilder/machine shop did. They did the rebuild on the short block and put my previously machined 4.0L head on it.

There are two entities in this process. 1. the R&R guy, you can call him a mechanic. 2. The Machine Shop/Rebuilder.

#2 is the one who bolted the thing together and I choose him because he has done this mod before and is fully familiar with it. This guy has a history of jeeps including racing sand jeeps. He's the best I could find in this area for this application.

And

He warranties the work for a year.

He confirmed that it would be no problem for #1 (mechanic) to change the bolts so if he's wrong he'll have to fix it if it comes down to it.

Thanks,

Bill

installations

Reply to
William Oliveri

I just like to play the devil's advocate some days Bill, I hope it works out great for you.

Still, not knowing where the freaking bolts go sure doesn't instill confidence in the statement 'I choose him because he has done this mod before and is fully familiar with it.'

Mike

William Oliveri wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Ha ha.... I'm getting to know you well Mike. After the last post that I knew you'd have that reply as I was thinking I'd have the same reply. :-)

Thanks for the Devil's Advocate. I certainly hope my 'luck' doesn't fall into the 'bad' category from here out. I'm already shot to my bones with nerves on this one.

Come on housing crash so I can afford my own garage :-)

Bill

Reply to
William Oliveri

I just have to add my 2 cents here Bill. I hope to heck that whatever they do to fix the bolt problem works out for you. Things like this make me glad that I rebuild my own stuff. Anyway, for what you paid for the rebuild, I would insist that they change the head gasket. I don't know what type of gasket they used, but some of them form quite a bond to the head and block surfaces, so relaxing the bolt torque could cause the gasket layers to separate slightly. Then it becomes leak time. Like Mike said, since there were different types of bolts for the heads, the guy should have at least asked you where the special bracket bolt belonged, unless he knew for sure (which he didn't). The second thing here that would raise a red flag is the fact that the rebuilder didn't insist on changing the gasket after his oops. I rebuild engines in my own shop and would never risk that. Is he going to do all the labor and reimburse you for your car rental, towing, etc. if the gasket fails? If not, I would insist he change the gasket. The gasket is probably about $40 at most, and and hour or two of his time to do it right. IMHO, this sounds like poor quality work.

Chris

rebuilder/machine

Reply to
c

finally man! congrats! now go break something else on it! heh-jeeping this time though...

Reply to
serg

Thanks Chris, I'll question the rebuilder when I go in for a visual to extend the warranty.

Thanks again,

Bill

Reply to
William Oliveri

I have seen that head gasket separation too many times....

I used to run a 1275 CC block with an 1100 cc head on it for the compression boost from the smaller dome with the same sized valves in an old Mini and that had a mis matched gasket like Bill's does.

I ran it fast sometimes, LOL, radar clocked at 132.4 mph and it was a 'real' bugger to keep a head gasket in it. (loved to top out the 'hot rod' 1/4 mile Camaros and Vettes as I hit 4th at 104 mph @ 5000 rpm or so and waved as I went by)

My buddy and I had a head gasket swap down to 30 minutes....

The British Leyland dealer thought they had a bad batch of gaskets until they called me in for a 'free' check of my 'built' engine that a Mini guru they know well made... It broke the first compression gauge, popped the pin off.

The starter would barely turn it over and it was a 'thumper' for idle with a 2 1/2" straight pipe and glass pack.

I don't think Bill wants to get that good at swapping head gaskets unless he had the benefits I had....

Mike

c wrote:

Reply to
Mike Romain

Well let me just say that you guys are giving me a big fat knot in my stomach. :-).

As I mentioned before, I did a lot of leg work in this area to find a good shop for R&R and machine and Chris thinks I paid way too much for the rebuild.

Sounds like I just need to move the heck out of this state.

Hopefully I have a jeep at the end of all this otherwise I'll push it into a crater somewhere or blow the thing up.

Bill

Reply to
William Oliveri

Dont lose faith Bill. Sometimes the projects that are the most trouble turn out the best, if that makes any sense. The price for your rebuild is high compared to what we pay here, but it is probably in line with your area. I don't know what the prices are like for engine shops there, so maybe all is fine. I will stick to my guns on the fact that, for what you are paying for the job, the guy should replace the head gasket, no questions asked. Maybe having worked in an engine shop for several years building very high strung racing engines has made me more critical of what I would consider subpar work. Like I said in my previous post, your gasket MAY never fail because of changing those bolts, but think about it this way: do you really want to have to worry about it out on a trail, or worry about it everytime you start your Jeep? I would personally hate to get stranded somewhere in BFE because of a failure that could have easily been prevented with a simple gasket replacement.

Chris

Reply to
c

Thanks Chris,

It's just a bit of head spinning going on. While working to get this done I also have my wife chirping in the background about spending money on this jeep. Then the R&R guy calls me about the head bolt and says he can't find a place to mount the Crankshaft Position Sensor after I gave him instructions and pictures.

I'll be glad when this crap is over for sure.

Bill

Reply to
William Oliveri

Reply to
Will Honea

Reply to
Steve G

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

The difference is, the OP hired a shop to have HIS engine rebuilt. It is not too much to expect that it be returned to him with all of the bolts in the correct place. The guy took this specific engine apart and he should be able to put it back together the same way. In such a case, one always wonders what ELSE wasn't put back together correctly.

Maybe you are right and there will be no problem, but in the unlikely event that it DOES cause a head gasket failure say 2-3 years down the road I can tell you exactly what is going to happen. He will have to pay for the repair out of his own pocket because his engine rebuild will be out of warranty. He is well within his rights to expect that the job be done correctly from the start. If it were MY engine and I made this mistake myself, I would probably just switch the bolts but if I had hired a professional to do it I would damn well expect either a new head gasket or a signed agreement stating that the shop is liable for head gasket failure beyond the normal warranty period.

I guess that makes you the only guy here qualified to render an opinion ( yeah, right). Clue: some of the guys advising him to get the gasket replaced either are currently or have been employed as professional mechanics, or as shop owners.

What the f*ck?

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Del Rawlins

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