2007 Defender latest.

It showed that in an accident involving fatalities, where a defender is involved the deaths are likely to be in the other car. This could be taken as evidence that the Defender is safer, although personally I think it shows the opposite!

There's a link to the PDF on the following page, I've not tested it though.

Ian thanks.

This is the one.

12 days ago my Discovery was hit by a Peugeot 206 after its driver lost control due to excessive speeding on a tight 90 degrees turn. If I were to be driving an ordinary car it is almost sure that I would have been injured on my legs. The car has not yet been taken to the bodyrepairs shop because of the summer holidays but it is almost certain that it does have a bent radius arm to chassis mount, a bent front axle and probably a bent chassis.

The other driver was 100% responsible for excessive speeding on a populated area (my house is located right on one of the most crowded sea resorts around Athens and at the time of the accident (18.15) there were several hundred people on the beach and on the road), having almost useless tyres (they had less than a mm of tread on them) and most importantly did not know how to drive (when the Peugeot started sliding he stepped on the brake pedal instead of pressing the accelerator to pull the sliding rear forwards)

So in this case will I be very politicaly incorrect if I say that I do not care for the other driver? My Landy proved strong enough to protect its driver. The fact that it wrecked the Peugeot and still has not harmed its driver is extremely good but I am sure he will never forget the view of a Discovery's front bumper approaching him (even if I were standing still since I had stopped on my pace and was just waiting for his car to hit mine)

Take care Pantelis

Most definitely politically incorrect!

You should drive a vehicle that crumples at the mere sight of another vehicle or pedestrian, even. You should be providing their crumple zone not they yours.

Remember that it is your responsibility to look after every other lunatic who is stupid enough to throw him/herself (pc - good, eh!) in front of you.

You would be politically incorrect, but given that I drive a landy too (and have decided not to sell it after all) you won't find me disagreeing much with you ;-)

My concern however is that the Defender features high on the list not because it's safe, but because it kills the other driver more often than other more crash-friendly vehicles. I certainly don't feel safe from accidents in my landy, the Defender certainly has less crash protection for its occupants than your Discovery, and none at all for the car that it hits.

At least in a Defender you have two large chassis beams sticking out the front and an engine, in my pinzgauer I'm at the front of the truck, with one central chassis rail and just bodywork between me and the object I'm hitting, not a nice feeling but the fun of the truck (when it's working) over-rides that.

Fuck political correctness, it's for spazzes & puffs.

:)

Nige

Nice to see the reasoned response again from Nige! :)

Stuart

Was only kiddin!!

My worry in a landy is being hit on the side where there is less metal in the way just outriggers and Ally panels rock sliders seem like a dammed fine idea.I reckon in the Pinz the buggers (Corsa Gti wannabes) are likely to be sat underneath the chassis in a side impact I was haveing a look at some

6x6 V8 Tdi Pinzes being outfitted a couple of weeks ago with 'stuff - military unspecified' and I think I'm in love- mean sods wouldn't let me have the keys probably just as well. Derek

Ian and Derek Hi,

The Pinz must be an absolute joy to drive.

As for the rocksliders the potential increase in side impact related accidents is most probably the main reason I have also chosen to install them in one of my camels (the other one is 100% genuine so I have not swapped the plastic door sills with rocksliders)

The research did not mention that the Defender or Discovery vehicles were dangerous to other drivers or occupants of other vehicles. It was focused on the protection factor of the vehicles occupants and most importantly their driver. I do wish to say that the Defender or the Disco is safe for other drivers but as already quoted if I were to chose between my life and that of another driver, especially if he is to be the only reason for the accident happening, I will chose myself everyday of the year.

Take care Pantelis

If it's the same report that I read about some time ago, it was a report specifically about what vehicle survivors were in when a fatal accident took place, i.e. in a fatal accident the survivors were most often in a Defender. From the way a Defender is built, it's pretty obvious that it can turn an accident into a fatal accident much more readily than other cars, which is why I think it featured so high up the list; not because it's safe, but because it kills the occupants of the other car much more readily than other cars so featured in more fatal accidents at lower speeds than other cars.

Just guesswork obviously, but it should be plain from the way the Defender/Discovery is made that it's not a nice vehicle to be hit by, worse than most other 4x4s although IIRC the Toyota Landcruiser used to use chassis rails too until relatively recently.

The defender certainly has pretty much no driver protection at all, other than a battering ram at the front. Fine if you hit a small car, as you'll crush it and kill the occupants, but if you hit a lorry, tree or another defender that's when the lack of driver protection in the defender will come back to hit you.

The Defender also has the handling characteristics of a sponge, trying to brake hard and avoid something is quite challenging as I found out when a deer jumped out in front of me some time ago!

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:17:30 +0100, Ian Rawlings scribbled the following nonsense:

how about the one where they noticed that lots of soldiers were suffering non fatal head injuries after the introduction of steel helmets, but never took into account the reduction in cases of death from head injury during WW1

On or around Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:20:05 +0300, Kalev Kadak enlightened us thusly:

If you can prove the manufacture date of the engine, then it gets tested as per the engine date, not the vehicle date. Mods to the bodywork might be dodgy if they decide that it's structural at that point.

A handy excuse no doubt (call me cynic if you like!), and yes, local councilors do live in some strange world where banging on about bringing jobs to an area is *so* important, and then make it impossible to do so - but the real culprits are the planning officers who have no come-back whatsoever on their descisions, as in if you win an appeal you can *never* get your costs, so they can fight you just for the fun of it. They can do as they please, without any fear of their descision being seriously questioned - leaving the game wide open to corruption and dishonesty.

(I had a run-in with Staffordshire Moorlands District Council over a boudry of domestic curtillage - they didn't even have an accurate map, the one from the Land Registry clear showed that the field (complete with field number) boundry going one way, and their map showed a large part of garden was in the field. They had deliberately moved it, as from the Land Registry map we could have got a house in our garden, never mind a garage. The bloke was quite open in saying that he "couldn't give a toss" what I thought when presented with the real map. I have since then had no regard whatsoever for planning officers, and never will.)

Richard

At about the same time I skidded my 110 (diesel on the road) into the back of a 205. I'm really miffed that I slightly bent my front bumper - though the 205 was a mess! Had I been driving any other vehicle that I can think of I'd have been looking at a new front end (even on a Discovery I'd have done the front bumper, lights, front valance and quite likely the radiator), never mind carrying on the journey without even bothering to seriously check for damage. Just that one incident tells me which vehicle I'd rather drive!

Richard

The EU set criteria for side impacts - which all LR vehicles (this was pre-Freelander) passed without modification. The criterea then had to watered down after protests form the manufacturers...... yes, including Volvo.

Richard

Richard Hi,

I think your insurance company may be a bit upset. On the other hand with diesel on the road I guess nothing could be done.

The good thing is that no one was hurt, metal and glass can always be repaired or replaced and after all this is why we pay those very heavy and expensive insurance premiums.

Take care Pantelis

> sis

Our gardener managed to hit my 90 one morning when he was dozing. Near enough totalled the front wing of his van (just driving around the driveway, so no high speeds or anything), but just pushed the bottom corner of the Landy in about an inch. Oh, and dented the exhaust pipe and bashed a chip out of the tail light. Shocking. :-)