CONFUSED a power question

just wonderd why, if i was trying to climb a grassy/loosedirt/muddy hill in my diahatsu 2.8 diesel engined landy, and it struggles, then why would a 200 tdi which i believe has more power ?? be better?

isnt it a grip thing and not power.

could someone explain the goings on with power to grip or whatever.

as im thinking that if im struggling with my set up, then id struggle with a 200tdi in the same set up.

( just been trialsing and the amount of people that said, its power that got him up there. ) a 2.8 diahatsu has loadsa torque low down so its a grip thing, i think. isnt it ?

Andy

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Reply to
Andy
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"More power!" can work - if you've seen the Icelandic off-road racing on Channel 4, you'll know what I mean. But I'm not sure if a 200TDi has enough "more" to make a significant difference.

Reply to
QrizB

This is an area which is always the source of much debate - to say the least! First off, the version of the Dihatsu 2.8 that was current at the time the 200 Tdi was launched has about 10hp less tham the 200, and somewhat less torque, something like 175lb/ft to 195 lb/ft at 1500rpm. Things may have changed since with newer versions of the Diahatsu engine, but at the time I bought my 110 this was very definately the case, and the source of some dabate - hence I looked it up! As to what makes one struggle for grip, well this really controversial stuff indeed, and the source of some very acrimonious debate. What I can say is based on my experinece trialling. If the challenge was to get up a steep slope on a good surface, say tarmac, with identical vehicles with differeing engines, then engine power and/or torque (depending on the speed at which the climb was being attempted) would only decide which one would stall first - loss of grip in these circumstances would be down to tyres and/or driving style. Even on a loose. or slippery, surface, by far the most important factor is the driver, follwed by the tyres, followed by suspension. At any large interclub event you will see leaf sprung 2.25 petrol or diesel vehicles making mince-meat of trick V8's simply because the driver is "better". The V8 has the advantage of picking up much more quickly than a 2.25 when the throttle is pressed, and that is it's main advantage, but a good/experienced driver will anticipate better and can therefore get along with a 2.25 quite nicely. Needless to say, such a driver would benefit from a V8 or whatever porportionaly. This better pickup time is often attributed to "more power", but is in fact rather more to do with the throttle response than power per se, getting a driver out of trouble when arguably they should have seen it comming, probably aided by a more appropriate tyre choice, which again comes down to experiecnce and/or personal preference. The same ability to get power quickly is also the downfall of many drivers, who just floor it rather than adding just sufficent throttle to pass the obstacle and thereby loose grip. I've trialled a 200 Tdi 90, and given the choice that is the engine I'd have, but thats another debate....... The same arguments above apply to engines from other manfacturers, brand loyalty adding large amounts of horse power and torque to the owners personal preference :) Flame proof suit donned! Richard

Reply to
richard.watson

struggles how?

if the engine struggles to maintain speed, then a more powerful engine will solve that problem.

however, if your referring to "struggling to find grip." ie. the tyres begin to spin, then engine choice will make very little difference. however, different engines will be easier to handle so may help to avoid situations where the wheels start spinning. if wheels are spinning, then you have to start looking at tyre tread, suspension set-up, traction control, all that sort of stuff.

Reply to
samuel mcgregor

On or around 8 Feb 2004 21:10:35 GMT, Andy enlightened us thusly:

yes.

unless your engine stalls 'cos you've got so much grip and a steep slope.

I assume you've got the normal LR transmission - the daihatsu transmission has a 2WD mode like a series LR.

assuming you've got the same transmission, your centre diff was locked if necessary (and working...) and the other LR didn't have any extra difflocks, then the difference is in tyres and driver. and experienced driver in a

2.25 series II diesel can drive almost anywhere on 60 bhp - almost all the time off-road there's not enough grip to use all the power of the engine.

some tyres, however, perform much better than others on mud, say. You'd need the same type of tyres to make a valid comparison, and moreover with the same amount of wear.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Another thought is a more powerful engine would allow a higher gear to be used so not as much torque is put down to the wheels much the same as using as high a gear as possible when driving on snow to prevent slip

Andy

Reply to
Andy.Smalley

Other factors can affect the perceived performance, including how easily controlled the power is to avoid slipping - this is largely a factor of how wide the torque band is, which may not be related closely to rated power. Another point is that the more powerful engine may allow a faster run up the hill, so that momentum carries you over the worst bits, allowing you to ease off on the throttle to avoid slipping. In other words, rated power is not the whole story! JD

Reply to
JD

maybe its just me expecting too much out of my little baby,

a disco with 300tdi , and brand new tyres( grizzly claws)

got up a few hills i just spun out on, in mine the engine kept its revs high but i just lost all traction,

i was so pissed off but i suppose grass is a force to be reckoned with anyway, probably worse on grass than mud.

so by the sounds of the replies its a traction thang. Having leafs wont help either.

i just need to improve my off roading skills a tad.

andy

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Reply to
Andy

thats your problem! As someone else pointed out, in an ideal world you should keep engine revs as low as possible.

Frustrating, isn't it! We've all been there. At Stoneleigh about 4 years ago, on a pretty flat car parking field, *everything* got stuck except tractors - wet grass can be a killer!

Practice make perfect (ish!) - don't worry, we've all been there.

Richard

Reply to
richard.watson

Andy,

Wet grass is the great leveller! Just be thankful there wasn't a Freelander tootling up there like it was tarmac .

SWMBO will never let me live that down....

Neil

4.6V8i Disco (mine!) 2.5V6 Freelander (hers!)
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Reply to
Neil Brownlee

On or around Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:26:30 +0000 (UTC), "Neil Brownlee" enlightened us thusly:

hehe. traction control is a marvellous thing.

my sierra has 4x4, with LSD in rear axle and in centre diff, and was one of the few things to get off a flat muddy rally carpark field a few years ago, on fast road tyres and with next-to-no ground clearance. 'course, if the mud had been deep, it'd not have gone anywhere.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Yep, I certainly have too. When I first got the Defender (said to be the best4x4xfar...) I got it stuck in a flat, grassy field. I couldn't believe it. Grass is a b*st*rd.

You just need to take every possible opportunity to drive difficult terrain and feel what the tyres, engine etc are doing. If you put it in low range diff-lock, it'll go up most things just on tickover. Try it, its pretty impressive!

Guy

Reply to
Guy Lux

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