converting V8 efi to hydrofuel hybrid

Link not working here, maybe my computer's snake-oil detection rules are blocking it? Badger.

ive checked the kink..its ok...has a small voice over demo so perhaps shockwave required or try without the /

Smells remarkably like snake oil to me - something similar has just been proven as such here in NZ

Never heard of it, sounds too good to be true.

I wouldn't pay until fitted & working and I'd want a no quibble money back guarantee.

Beware I say!

- Andy

On or around Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:45:13 -0000, "steve" enlightened us thusly:

website comes up with a black page here.

Basically, any claims which sound too good to be true probably are.

there is some evidence for a 6-stroke fuel-water-steam engine being effective, a couple of blokes are working on them. But I doubt you can credibly convert an existing 4-stroke.

Looks like a scam...unless you used the exhaust gas to run a steam engine to drive a generator to charge the battery and took the water from the condenser to go into the hydrogen generator....

In message , steve writes

Have you checked out:

"steve" wrote

I didn't bother looking at it more than a minute, it's rubbish. There's plenty of similar scam products around. Btw, if it were that good, you wouldn't be able to get it only from some companies nobody's ever heard of.

You might want to fit one of them amazing polarising-whatnot magnets on your fuel pipe as well while you're at it.

Geo

Bummer!!

Well I think it all sounds and looks wonderful and I think I'll be beating a path to their door sometime soon.

Not.

I was speaking to an acquaintance a few months ago about this principle, he told me he was involved in setting up finance for a company making and selling them, like everyone here I am a bit cynical and thought the comment 'snake oil' sums it up nicely, but he was convinced about their viability.

Then dicussing with a mate who is a jeweller got the reply, that works in the same way as a microweld, water in Hydrogen and Oxygen out to make a very small and hot flame,

So after a quick google

Using a standard electrical supply, hydrogen and oxygen are produced by the electrolysis of distilled water. The mixed gases are passed through a gas atomiser and delivered to single or multiple torches via an output lead. Acknowledged as an industry standard, the Microwelder has been manufactured for over 15 years and thousands are in service throughout the world.

I wonder if this is the principle, inject the Hydrogen and Oxygen along with the fuel making it a more complete burn making it more efficient?, How much power is needed for the electrical supply for the electroysis?

Des

More than is produced by the flame - it's all to do with the laws of physics and the conservation of energy.

They're marvellous, they are. If you're lost in the middle of nowhere and you know the centre of gravity of your motor, you can rig up a pulley to a convenient tree branch and lift your motor off the ground, and providing you've got the magnet the right way round on the pipe it will point you in the right direction out of there!

Well if you do a bit of googling around for "HHO generator" reports seem positive, but I've not bothered to delve very deeply, it needs a closed-loop EFI system with an O2 sensor in the exhaust (that needs modifying) and the only car I have with such a setup is in bits in my garage!

Googling around for "HHO generator scam" gets mixed results too, with most of the comments claiming it to be a scam being very badly thought through, so I'd say it's about 50/50 from my brief 5 minute wander about.

If you can get them to guarantee claimed savings and removal if nothing is found then fine, might as well have a punt but watch the small print and get it all in writing.

Not really, you can release energy from an energy story by supplying less energy than the store releases, a car wouldn't run without it as you'd need to put more energy into getting standard petrol to burn than the fuel burning would produce. What you're thinking of is the overall system including getting the energy into the store in the first place. That's not done in a petrol engine, the energy is stored in the petrol and is released by vapourising it and supplying a spark, and the stored energy is released using a tiny amount of power compared to the energy that comes out. Setting fire to a pile of wood is another example, one match -> dirty great big fire.

In this system they're claiming to use energy to generate a gas that makes the burn of the main fuel more efficient, but the bulk of the energy released is coming from the main fuel supply, your petrol. The added efficiency is claimed to overcome the energy required to make the hydrogen in the first place, whether that's the case or not isn't clear to me but I'm not looking into it. It's not a car "running on water", that would indeed need more energy to make the gas than would be supplied by it.

Not sure if it's the same idea, but see page 102 of November 2008 LRO for a report on an Icelandic 300TDi Disco running on a 'Brown Gas' mix.

Joskin

Well mixed results here too. Some not reading the post or not understanding the word Hybrid. No im not on crack but I keep an open mind about such things...Hehe. As for the claims - Well Ive delved into it and as pointed out yes its a 50/50 mixed bag. Firing Hydrogen into a plenum chamber/carb setup to get the engine to burn less petrol seems valid. A 35% fuel saving isnt that unreasonable depending on engine size and efficiency.

On or around Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:44:50 -0000, "steve" enlightened us thusly:

the website actually worked today.

Far as I can tell, it's splitting water into H and O and then adding the resultant H and O to the engine intake. However, they seem to be claiming to use the O twice: it's going to re-oxidize with the H AND help the regular fuel burn more efficiently? I doubt it. Also, they mention KOH crystals (Potassium Hydroxide, I guess, although could be more bullshit) as an "electrolyte". They *may* mean catalyst. But if not, then it's a consumable you have to buy.

Even my rudimentary chemistry sees holes in the claims. One very obvious one is that the process of splitting H and O from water is endothermic, and if it's being done on-the-fly and in enough quantity to make a difference, it's consuming a good bit of electricity and where's that coming from? the engine-driven alternator.

Now, if they were advocating a mains-powered H-generator from which you make H out of water at home and then use that to fill the car, it'd be more credible.

As already pointed out Austin, this doesn't really mean it won't work. They're not running the engine on the stuff, just using it to increase efficiency.