Defender 90 TDi, Starting woes..

It sounds like either a bad battery connection or, more likely in my experience from the symptoms you give, a dead battery. Check the battery terminals are clean & not corroded, check it's not flat. It may be an idea to jump start it & take it to your local tyre/ battery place & get the battery checked. It may be flat because the alternator's failed. If the battery voltage with the engine running is low (It should be 13.8 volts or thereabouts), check the alternator.

Tciao for Now!

John.

Get jumo lead and connect it from teh battery -ve to the engine block (one of the lifting brackets would be good) - if it starts better you have a bad earth, most likely from the starter motor to chassis.

Richard

Sounds like a dead battery to me. Lights etc can all work off a pretty much dead battery as they don't take that much out of a car battery, but the starter is a real killer if the battery is already a bit weak. If you can, try to jump start it from another vehicle, or better, borrow a battery from something else - that will eliminate that battery if it still doesn't work.

Matt

Matthew Maddock uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Check the voltage on the battery too and note most Halfrauds type jump leads are s**te in my own experience.

Lee D

If you have a multi meter, check the resistance between the battery neg terminal and the engine block and or starter motor. If the ohm reading is any more than 0.1 ohms then there is a good chance that there is your problem. If you do find a higher reading, then just remove the neg lead from where it is bolted down, clean the terminal and metalwork it's bolted to, then reasemble with a smear of vasaline should stop the problem for a while.

If you don't have a multi meter, then beg borrow or buy one.

As an almost foolproof test for the alternator output, once you get the vehicle running, put the head lights on full beam, and watch the quality of the colour of light produced. If it looks bright white then the alternator should be OK, however if not so bright white then suspect trouble.

On or around 13 May 2007 03:39:50 -0700, McBad enlightened us thusly:

Sound like a bad connection. Start from the battery positive, and check tightness and cleanliness of connections all the way around the high-current circuit - to the starter solenoid, between solenoid and starter body, engine block to chassis, chassis back to battery.

Could be but unlikely.

oh, another check point: starter securely bolted to engine :-)

As others have also said, I suspect the battery or the connections. The easiest way to test for bad leads/connections is to use jump leads to make another earth connection between the battery and the engine block. If your engine starts well then you have your cause. I used an old cheap Halfords jump lead to make up a permanent supplementary earth lead from the engine lifting bracket to the battery, not so likely to corrode as the one to the gearbox underneath the vehicle. Recently experienced starting problems where the battery appeared OK, even with the multimeter, but just didn't have the power under heavy load, like when asked to start the engine. The local Battery place did an under load test and proved it, a new battery cured it and how.

Hmm, it has stopped raining long enough for me to go and try a few of the suggested ideas. Thanks guys. Results are as follows...

1. Resistance between battery negative and engine lifting bracket is < 0.1 ohm.
2. Both battery terminals and clamps etc look good and are dry, secure and greased. No corrosion.
3. I can't get the vehicle to jump start, connecting to wife's car has no effect.
4. Voltage across the battery terminals is 11.5V, but that is without the engine running and after I've tried to start it several times.
5. The battery was bought in Feb 2005, so it is just over two years old. Should be ok for a bit yet I'd have thought?
6. When I attempted to start the l/r I get a heaving cough from the starter motor then stocatto clicking, the starter motor doesn't run.
7. All the connections around the starter motor feel good / secure (but I have discovered a split turbo hose!)

Will go and have a look underneath at the earths near the gearbox; have been putting this off 'cos there's about an inch of muddy water on the ground under there.

Anyway, still puzzled. :o(

M.

The bad news is that when I had the same symptoms with the same test results on my Series II, it was the starter motor.

It had collapsed internally, & looked perfect from the outside.

Another clue was that the solenoid (Mine's an inertia starter, not pre-engaged) & wiring from the battery were heating up quite severely when I tried to start it.

One last thing to try before you start swimming in the mud would be to charge the battery fully off the vehicle, put it back on & check the cranking voltage. This shouldn't drop more than about 4 volts from the off load voltage, IIRC. More than that, either the battery's expired or the starter's drawing excess current.

Depending on the jump leads, I've had cheap ones fail on the first use, even with a small engine, so not starting with them may not be conclusive. The cheap ones are often just lightly crimped connectors, which fail if you so much as look at them cross-eyed:-/

Tciao for Now!

John.

McBad a écrit :

All point to a dead battery to me. I've had it twice where even when I jumped the vehicle, it still didn't start, but on removing the old battery and replacing, it worked. I don't know why - perhaps the old battery being knackered has some effect on the jumping process and doesn't let full power go to the starter? Or perhaps I was using cheapo jumper leads as previously mentioned. Any chance of removing the battery from your wifes car without having to reset codes etc to give that a go without spending any money!

Matt

"McBad" wrote...........

Yebbut, you've missed the main one, what does the voltmeter show when you are trying to start it? If there's no appreciable drop then there's a loose/bad or high resistance connection somewhere, otherwise it could be any number of things that have been previously suggested.

Martin

I've had *exactly* these symptoms on two cars, in both cases the battery had died, they do that sometimes. Something happens inside and suddenly they're useless trash and can't supply enough welly to run the electrics, causing havoc with the electrics and especially any car alarms. One of the batteries was less than a year old, and in both cases were in cars regularly used.

Charging didn't help much, and jump-starting with the battery in place, even with RAC gear, didn't work well at all. Sticking a new battery in cured it immediately.

Went out this morning for another look.

Electrolyte in battery is covering plates. Voltage across battery terminals now 11.74 (so it has dropped a bit over-night). Turned key and no appreciable voltage drop as plug heaters warmed.. Turned key further and voltage dropped momentarily to 10V / 8V and the engine started! Shocked! (But, this sudden big voltage drop would, according to previous posts, mean the connections are fine in the circuit) Ran the engine for a few minutes but all the voltage I could get across the battery terminals was 11.75 / 11.76V, this didn't change between idle and fast idle reving.

According to previous poster this unchanging low voltage around 12V means battery is not charging. Therefore it could be alternator or could be battery... but, fact that nothing happened when I attempted to charge off wife's car last night suggests it is the battery and not the alternator. I can feel a trip to Halfrauds coming on. I will be back!

Thanks all,

M

No voltage rise across the battery with the engine running would suggest the battery is OK (Especially as the engine started this time), but the alternator isn't charging. It should read 13.7 to 13.9 volts with the engine running at about 1500 RPM. I take it the ignition light is doing the right things here, as if the bulb or the wiring to it fails, it can stop the alternator charging. The fact that you got a minimal voltage drop with the glowplugs & not too much while cranking suggests your battery is fine.

No rise while trying to charge off another vehicle doesn't necessarily point to a dead battery, unfortunately. It points to a bad connection on the jump leads, or a bad battery, or sometimes, the alternator on the other vehicle cutting out because of the combined load of the 2 batteries.

Tciao for Now!

John.

If you're not in a desperate hurry, take it to a garage who can test the battery, hellfrauds might be able to do it, provided they have a dribble sheet to follow to tell them exactly what to do.

Unfortunately desperate hurry is the name of the game. :o(

I've got to be in Nottingham tonight and the 90 was meant to be my transport from Cardiff. Looks like I'm going to have to leave it on the drive for a few days and worry about it when I get back later in the week; it is clearly not going to be a quick fix. Don't have time today to go all round the alternator wiring with a multi-meter or take the dashboard off to check the wiring in there (though I think the warning lights are working as normal on start up).

Thanks though,

M.

On or around 14 May 2007 01:01:59 -0700, McBad enlightened us thusly:

I bet it's both :-(

but my favoured bet is on the alternator, in view of latest info. Do you get the red battery light when you switch on, and does it go out when it starts?

"Austin Shackles" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Well until the alternator kicks out a decent charge I'd guess he'll not know.

If you do buy a new battery from Halfrauds and the battery box under the passenger seat is the same as my 110 then get a Maverick one...

pasted from my previous post on the matter :-

I just bought a new battery for the 110 TD (Though this could equally apply to 88's and 90's too hence posted here.

I found the old battery known good (but wrong spec)was not man/woman (equal ops and all ) enough for the job and only having 510 Amps Cold cranking and

65 AH was way off the recommended 110 AH for the properly prescribed battery.

So much ringing around I nearly committed to a battery but had to pop in to Halfrauds anyway to follow up on a promise to youngest (basket for her bike if she dumped the stabilisers - mission accomplished ) and browsed the many batteries on sale.

After a while I saw the 072 recommended battery and my eyes were drawn to a monster battery on the lower shelf so I glanced over the specs. 720 amps CCA and 155 AH --- wow! whats more it's cheaper than the 072 of lower spec (though the 072 was smaller by around a third) and still has the same 3 year warantee (sp?). I browsed through halfrauds battery guide and found the monster battery was actually for a Ford Maverick. It cost £72 (but chaper than the 072 anyway) and has now been fitted under the seat in the 110.

I thought it worth sharing as I like to up the spec on anything when going for replacement items, and saving money at the same time I guess I could have got one slightly cheaper at other outlets but I was in a hurry.

110 Now starts like a dream.

Lee D

On or around Thu, 17 May 2007 22:36:50 +0100, "Lee_D" enlightened us thusly:

best battery for landies of the regular kind is a 643 or 644. it'll fit under the seat.

Buy it from a commerical place or agricultural merchant, much cheaper.