Disco II V8 stranded in Czech Republic - help!

Simon Oates uttered summat worrerz funny about:

Do you have breakdown cover?

We use Red pennant through the Caravan club, worth every penny. The will recover the car home if you break down.

Now then

not suggesting you should join now or owt..... they also translate between you and the garage. As for the likelyhood of them having done a v8 before... don't worry.. look at it as a positive, It's the cowboys who think they know what they are doing you need to worry about.

Lee

This might sound a bit daft, but can the British Embassy/Consulate find you a translator - the risk of driving back is quite large I'd say. I don't know what parts prices are like out there (probably quite high judging by the amount we send out), but I'll bet the labour is cheap(er). I believe I'm correct in saying that any work carried out by an LR dealer in any country is covered by warranty world-wide, so there shouldn't be any problems in that regard.

Possiby not a whole lot of help, but I tried ;-)

Richard

In message , Simon Oates writes

Did you have correct Anti-freeze mix?

Risk of much disaster must be high, yes.

I don't know what parts prices are like out there (probably

I wouldn't bet on it. Would you remedy another garages work for free? Anyhow, the Czech lads have probably as much chance of doing it right first time as anyone. Frankly if he expects a warranty on a major repair then expect to have a new or genuine factory re-con fitted at vast expense rather than a strip and replace-only-obviously-defective-components job.

Huw

Thanks for all the input, makes me feel much less alone here! Seems a pretty clear consensus that I should not try to drive it back to the UK, so that's one decision made. Most likely case is, I guess, that it is a head gasket that's gone, assuming the initial external leakage of coolant led to overheating and consequent head gasket failure. If I could be certain of that, I would let the local dealer in CZ loose on it as renewing gaskets and pressure testing and machining heads if necessary should be well within their competence, and the labour rates here are better than in the UK. My fear, however, is that it might be more complicated, e.g. a porous cylinder liner, and the local dealer here won't be able to diagnose that until they've got the heads off. It's a 1999 build year, 49k miles, full LRSH with intermediate 6 monthly oil changes, so does anyone have any views on the likelihood of a liner problem? And any ideas on how to identify if it is a liner problem without removing the heads? If it is a liner problem, then I suspect I would be better off using a specialist rebuilder in the UK or sourcing a replacement short engine there rather than trying to do that here. There must be much more choice in the UK (I've not seen many, if any, Rover V8 engined vehicles here). If I do get it recovered to the UK does anyone have any recommendations as to a good specialist V8 engine repairer/ rebuilder in the north-west (or further afield, I don't mind travelling to someone who comes well recommended)? I live near Chester. As to whether it had the right mix of antifreeze, it was renewed at the last service (LR main dealer) so should have been ok but there's obviously no way I can know or check now. But I agree that the fact that the problem manifested itself here the day after an overnight stop in Metz where the temperature had been -15 to -20 degrees is grounds for some suspicion. And if it is a cracked block thanks to the wrong anti-freeze mixture, then I guess that also militates in favour of recovery to the UK. Thanks again to everyone!!!

"Marc Draper" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mdeng.demon.co.uk...

Simon Oates uttered summat worrerz funny about:

You would be really unluck to get a cracked block or slipped liner and if I understand it correctly the Discos didn't get the issues the same as the Rangies did due to the fuel mixture creating issues with running temp and hot spots in the engine.

My money is on head gasket. Does it blow steam out the exhaust... like way more than normal, as it looks like a kettle driving down the road?

I'd expect any frost damage to manifest it's self in a blown core plug before the heads dot damaged. It still could be a dislodged core plug but only time will tell... a few are hidden such that they can't be seen with the engine in situ but when they have gone on my cars they have blown clear out of the hole on engines in vehicles parked in a garage in the UK.

As to the coolant... the mix for the UK may not be up to the extremes of temperature your getting out there at the mo.

I found when our Disco Conken outen in the South of France I too had the language barrier and half my frustration was things not being translated literally. I found regular physical contact at the garage where I could stamp and bang things help euro relations along a treat ;-)

At least you can "chill out" while it's being fixed, in the mean time make the most of those labour rates and if all else fails book in to a hotel and check out Scrap heap challenge on Sky..... you should pick up a few tips ;-)

Take some peace of mind in the fact it's a sudden failure rather than an agonising issue dragging on over the last few weeks.

I note the D1 doesn't have a coolant loss sensor unlike the RRC, don't know if the DII is any different.

Lee

Agreed. Being in the UK, i tend to go for the weakest possible mix of antifreeze since that generally covers the coldest temperatures we will get! I think that mix is only rated for -15 (if not less), so any colder than this could have overwhelmed your coolant.

I say that as, for parts anyway, all LR parts carry a 12 month warranty and should a part fail that, say, I have sold and the problem occurs in Scotland then LR will honour the warranty and get it sorted in Scotland. I would assume that repairs carried out by a franchise dealer would be the same, as no-one is ever going to admit they ballsed the job up and will blame the parts anyway.

Richard

Did you tell them about your planned trip to the Czech Republic and that their winters as substantially colder than ours? Giving them figures of colder than -20C at night.

If you didn't the chances are that they would only put in their UK standard antifreeze mix which might go down to -15C on a good day. Remember that in the UK, -10C is considered *very* cold and pretty rare. Even exposed and at 1400' -10C is rare, last time we got close was early March 2001, we do get below -5C several times a winter though.

Frost damage of some sort seems pretty likely. Have they tried a compression test on each pot? Wouldn't a head gasket problem show up as poor compression and inabilty to maintain the pressure? A blown/leak core plug would fail the coolant pressure test but not affect cylinder compression.

Unfortunately, liner problems can appear at virtually anytime at all, quite often without any overheating provocation or warning. Pull the plugs and look for one that is considerably cleaner than the rest, that is a good indication of "washing". A better method is to use some sort of scope thingy and look down the plug holes at the piston crowns for the same "washed clean" look. If you find one like that, then it's most probably a crack behind that liner allowed the leak up past the thing! Now, here's a trick that might just get you home..... refit the heads using

3.5 ltr composite gaskets, non-genuine parts (real steel). The gaskets are oversize for the nominal bore, more like 3.65" instead of 3.5", so will actually seal over the edge of the cylinder liners as opposed to the correct 3.7" bore gaskets (which are more like 3.8" when measured!) not actually sealing off the liner but sealing against the block! I've done this before and it's worked handsomely.

Methinks there's a bunch not too far from Chester called Automotive Component Remanufacturing, or something similar. They can supply you with an engine relinered using top-hat liners that completely cures the cracking/sealing issues for once and for all. There's also Lund Engines, down in Devon, he does the same blocks.

I run 50% mix all year. Keeps the corrosion inhibiting up.

Badger.

If there was a second strip down taking 20 0r 30 hours [or even 3 or 4] involved in replacing the part and with the possibility that other parts were consequently damaged as well, no-one will pay the labour at the second dealer so I suspect strongly that he would be on his own and phrases like 'take it back to the original repairer' would be heard.

Huw

That's not what the LR warranty says.

Richard

...and Lee_D spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

Depends on how it got used. Cold temps on their own shouldn't damage the head, but if the OP had run it, it might. I had a Triumph Dolomite back in the early 80s which I took out for a play (rwd, brilliant) in the snow after a night of -15 or so. It overheated within a couple of miles. Turns out the coolant had turned to slush within the exposed radiator hoses and the rad wasn't in circuit, even with the block fully warm. That gave me a warped head, and constant coolant loss until I sold it a couple of years later.

On or around Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:54:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:

have seen -17 once here. but more commonly, -5 is unusual - we did get a couple of -10s this year.

I am willing to bet that is what a dealer would say, along with ''who is going to pay all that labour?"

Huw

Update. After various conversations with the dealer through friends with varying degrees of linguistic skills, and getting even more confused, I spent an hour or so with the dealer today, me armed with various dictionaries and the dealer with the Land Rover workshop manual. Amazing how picture books can help communication :-) The dealer's view is that the cooling system is over-pressurising (top hose does get hard) and is forcing coolant to leak through weakest available seal or gasket (having fixed a leaking connector, it's now showing signs of leaking around a manifold gasket) and that the likely cause is head gasket, although, as they have had experience of porous blocks on some 4.6 litre Range Rovers, they say that they cannot rule out a block problem until they have the heads off. The dealer also tells me that, contrary to what I had thought, my block is a solid block without cylinder liners. Can anyone confirm that I do not have liners (it's a 1999 4.0 litre engine,

56D engine number, with an "A" suffix)? The dealer will double check the state of the plugs for bleaching first thing tomorrow (mechanic had gone home by the time I could get there, so service manager could not tell me), then the plan is to let them take the heads off and see what they find. As for the coolant mix, I would like to think that it was ok. The UK servicing dealer knows that the car spends winters here (it's not the first winter it's been here and stood outside overnight in temperatures down to -30 or so) and should have the appropriate coolant mix, so it should have been ok unless they made a mistake (and no chance of getting them to admit to that, even if they did put the wrong mix in!!!). There was no sign of overheating on the entire journey (temp gauge rock steady on normal) until after I had arrived, unloaded the car (20 mins or so parked outside in -15) and restarted the engine, so I am guessing that it was the cooling down of the engine while unloading that sucked coolant out of the system at that time, through wherever the leak is?? Needless to say, I'm crossing my fingers that it is only a head gasket and not a block problem (engines here seem to be significantly more expensive than in the UK, and I'm not sure how the dealer would react to fitting an engine shipped out by an independent from the UK rather than supplied through Land Rover here). But I'll cross that bridge when I get there. It will be early next week before we know what removing the heads reveals. I'll let you know what they find, and whether we are going to be looking at sourcing a new engine, so watch this space! In the meantime, thanks again to all.

"Austin Shackles" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

ALL rover v8 engines have ally blocks with steel liners fitted to them. It's solid in the sense that it isn't removeable wet liners.

Badger.

Thanks for that. I guess that's probably what the dealer was trying to say when I was asking about porous liners, but it got "lost in translation" :-)

Simon

Just in case you don't know, what actually happens is that the ally of the block cracks behind a liner (normally near the top and close to a head bolt hole), allowing the block to loosen its grip on the liner when hot. This can result in coolant being forced up the side of the liner, or combustion gasses being forced into the waterways. During the manufacturing process the liners are force-fitted into the block with the block heated to expand the ally. The liners would sometimes lift a few thou as the blocks cooled during manufacture, believed to be caused by non-uniform cooling of the block. The top faces were then machined flush as the top of the blocks were final-machined. The cracks form (normally accelerated by overheating) in the first place because of unequal wall thickness of ally around the liners, caused by shift in the sand cores as the molten ally is poured to cast the blocks. In service, if a block cracks and loosens its grip on a liner, the liner can then slip downwards a few thou, compromising the already poor seal across the head gasket. It's the combination of a crack, a slipped liner and an inadequate seal that causes the loss of coolant/overpressure. Badger.