Disco Vs Trooper - shocking result!

I was interested in your comments. Here in Australia Daihatsu four wheel drives have never been very common, although many owners swear by them.

The market, which was 90% Landrover in the early sixties, was taken over at least 75% by Toyota Landcruiser by the early seventies - in other words about ten years before the Series 3 stopped production, and Landrover has not seriously challenged this dominance since. (As an aside, since then the four wheel drive market has expanded enormously, with many more players, and Toyotas overall share is far less now).

From my experience there are two reasons why Toyota has managed this - firstly, superior on road performance compared to the Series 3, and secondly, a vastly superior dealer network, since they had mass market cars as well and Landrover did not.

Diesel engines did not enter in to it - at the time I am talking about you could not buy a diesel Landcruiser (but you could a Landrover - I owned one). Build quality and reliability did not enter in to - I drove new Landcruisers in the desert in 1965-66 so I know what I am talking about. Although The Landcruiser had some advantages in reliability - the axles did not break, although the semifloating rear axle bearings tended to fail, and were a major job to replace. Steering was appalling even when new, and the reliability of the electrics made Lucas look good. Dust leaks were as bad as Landrovers, and the bodies fell to bits. The seat frames broke under the weight of western drivers. The fuel tank arrangement was a death trap (fuel tank under the seat like the S3, but above the floor, so that any fuel leak pools on the floor).

Despite this Toyota managed to take most of the market from Landrover, helped by the fact that Landrovers were in short supply from the early sixties to the early seventies and a large part of Australia's quota was taken up by military orders. Toyota kept the market by rapid improvement (floating rear axle, improved steering, body improvements, quality improvements, four speed gearbox) and a good dealer network. This at a time when Landrover, under Leyland's control, was losing its mass market (Austin/Morriss) and hence dealer network, and was static in design and deteriorating in build quality. By the time the Stage 1 arrived the market had been lost, and the high price of this in both the V8 and Isuzu diesel variants served to limit the extent to which it was regained. The 110 has always been a minor component of the market here, and the 90 only arrived a year or so ago.

JD

On or around Thu, 27 May 2004 22:37:25 +0100, "Huw" enlightened us thusly:

new toy will cruise at that quite happily with more to come on the level. I suspect it'll top out about 95, I know that the 3.9 RR will hold a steady

On or around Thu, 27 May 2004 11:58:01 +0100, "Huw" enlightened us thusly:

airbags can be sorted.

A similar impact in the citroen I had previously required major surgery to the front end. It was certainly well beyond a roadside bodge to get it going again.

Obviously, a Citroen BX ain't a LR...

I'd not looked in enough detail into the disco 3 to find out that it was still separate-chassis, though I suppose I must have known once. I don't see how you can build something equivalent to the defender without.

Mind, there are far too many electronics on it to make it viable as a thing to take off into the jungle and be able to bodge. I foresee an increasing market in rebuilt-as-new pre-electronic vehicles... and quite honestly, the latest TD5 is really not suited to developing nations in e.g. Africa with no realistic infrastructure to keep 'em running.

Obviously

A Defender version destined for the Jungle might not need such electrickery. Of course, if one were to buy it in the EC with the intension of using it within the EC, then there will be no choice. It will come with the latest emissionised engines and crash protection, both primary and secondary, to meet the relevant local legislation. This will require electronic control, not least for the engines because they cannot lower emissions without.

I foresee an

Africa will have to get an infrastructure to repair these things. Think of the job creation opportunities. As it stands, very few LR are sold from the UK to those countries. It would be sensible to continue building the present vehicle in a third country to meet their local and more basic needs. They certainly cannot be economically built in the UK. The UK market requires 'value added' for any local build to be viable. Our cost and political structure is so anti-industry that there is little industry left.

Huw

I'm not sure of the mph, but Austin seems to know. My top speed is about 175km/h

either that or australia :)

"Huw" wrote

my '88 Bighorn with the 4jb1 2.8 turbodiesel engine did 140km/h down the motorway with a full load in the back.