EU Bullbar legislation

My standard Hilux is a far better vehicle offroad than a standard Series LR. However it's so characterless that I much prefer the Series.

Reply to
EMB
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Neither of which were ever EC policy but, in the first case, was a straight lie by the Daily Mail, and in the second, down to changes in UK legislation.

Or do you think beer being served in pints is the EC standard?

Reply to
William Black

After reading much of this thread I think it has to be said that whilst efforts to improve "pedestrian friendliness" are possibly laudable, this legislation strikes me as just so much more s**te forced upon everyone and everything to generate more money for someone, probably the government or a department of such, and is only really going to antagonise the people it affects without having any real, measureable and verifiable benefits to the oft-touted 'pedestrian frielndliness' at all.

I don't run 'bullbars' and have no wish to do so ... My Disco does have a tubular bumper though, with a lighter gauge 'A-frame style light bar'. I really didn't want it as I don't need it, but it would have cost more to have the 'A-frame' taken out of the process! (See Flickr photo's

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I dunno whether people would class this as a bullbar, but tbh what really bothers me is that some PC Plod who's read of this legislation sees it, decides "Ah! a bullbar, lets check it's all kosher" and I get pulled and have to go through the motions to 'prove innocence'. A pain in the arse is my opinion of this kind of legislation with little to no real benefit to anyone. The only reason I have a 'different' bumper is 'cos I ripped the original bumper plastics off twice, ripped end-caps off god only knows how many times and it was getting broken _every_ time we went 'playing' (fortnightly with green-laning through the week).

It's functional, has improved approach angles immensely, is very strong (I can stand on it, bounce up and down) and can pul cars out of flooded lanes just by looping a rope over it (didn't want to get wet reaching the tow shackles below water-line). it can take a winch between it and the steering guard (with a proper winch mount tray) but I don't want a winch as I rarely go alone and don't go too gnarly if I am on my own. A winch really would be extravagant for me. (Hi-lift and anchor/chain/rope/shackles is good enough IMHO) It has a rounded front to it and I honestly can't see it being any worse for a ped than anything else I could have got. Not, I hasten to add, that I ever intend to hit a ped anyway ... ;)

It was cheap, compared to other more normal looking bumpers. (Less than £100 whereas a Scorpion bumper, say, was £275) I had seriously been considering running with just the metal bumper without any plastics on it!

You make things like this expensive (through legislation) and people will simply make something themselves, which is likely to do more harm than good, IMHO.

Reply to
Paul - xxx

I dunno whether

It's not going to happen.

Well, any more than bikers with illegal exhausts get harassed, and they don't unless they're being silly.

The cops have better things to do with their time than go around chasing silly 'Construction and Use' offences.

However, if it's not an approved device and if you hit someone then you'll certainly get prosecuted.

Like exhausts and helmets, the approved devices will have an easy to find 'kite mark' or 'CE' mark somewhere.

Reply to
William Black

No no, we'll all be murdered in our beds! It's this week's scare, something to blame on toffs/immigrants/europeans etc etc..

Never mind that people are always complaining about laws not being enforced, the laws they don't like the sound of (not necessarily the ones that are actually being proposed) will of course be exhaustively enforced. Why don't people learn from their own eyes?

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

I was stopped three times in one week (Triumph Dolomite) for a 'defective' exhaust and had to get a garage to certify that it wasn't defective. I can easily see some eager young plod wanting to follow through on something like this.

Until they see something that's a tad unusual or out of their comfort zone. I've already been asked about the bumper by Police once. Not actually stopped, more 'in passing'.

Reply to
Paul - xxx

I'm not blaming it on anything of the sort.

See my reply to WB, this is _exactly_ why I don't like this kind of petty, bureaurocratic nonsense at all. It's pervasive and despite what you say _is_ a threat to the things we do.

Reply to
Paul - xxx

You do need however to make sure you're railing against *real* bureacratic nonsense, I've never seen a new piece of legislation that can be summed up in a few sentences, they've all got exceptions and overriders left right and centre, so before people start fretting about having to remove winch bumpers or whatever, best have a look at the real thing.

People seem to be very good at going off not even half-cocked when it comes to legal issues, e.g. all the nonsense talked about the Human Rights Act. Not having a bullbar I'm not inclined to look up the relevant documentation, but those who complain about it without having seen it are being a tad hasty.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

landlords who sell a pint of shandy, lager and lime, cider and black, or pint with a top are technically breaking the law, as mixed drinks must be sold in metric measures!!!

-- "For those who are missing Blair - aim more carefully."

To reply direct rot13 me

bURRt the 101 Camper

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200TDi Disco with rotten floor 200 TDi DIsco, "the offroader" 1976 S3 Lightweight
Reply to
Simon Isaacs

So you think a pint with a head is a "mixed drink"? Or is that not what you mean by "top"?

Also you're the only person I've ever heard say the above re mixed drinks, where did you read it?

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

On or around Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:01:57 +0100, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:

"top" in this case means about an inch or less of summat else such as lemonade. If the beer needs this to make it drinkable, it's not worth drinking in the first place...

Reply to
Austin Shackles

I wouldn't be too sure, there's a big difference between a noisy exhaust that can harm no one and a bull bar that can kill. Tell the caravanners that they're not going to get stopped by the police for construction and use offences and they will laugh at you!, there are regular stings set up all over the country for such violations.

Quite likely, but not just for the bull bar, many people who fit these are already driving without insurance as they have not cleared it with their insurers and any illegal bull bar will guarantee you are. The new laws will allow a lot more insurers to walk away from claims leaving the driver completely screwed, injure someone with an illegal bull bar and you may well lose your home.

Greg

Reply to
Greg

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Your link is broken but from the description it sounds as if it is definitely covered by the new law which covers everything bolted onto the front of a car.

Ask yourself this, if the original plastic was so weak that you broke it, and your new "different bumper" is as strong as you say then which would you rather have hit your child?.

Out of curiosity, what did your insurers say when you told them you had fitted this?.

Greg

Reply to
Greg

Ah I see, never heard of it! Strange concept but with some of the stuff I've had to drink, some battery acid might have improved it no end..

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

Ask yourself this; which would you rather have hit your child, a Sinclair C5 or a Land Rover?

We can expect to see your landy up for sale soon then?

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

No, but you will never see it adorned by dangerous add-ons. In fact I removed the huge winch and home made steel fabrication that the last owner 'needed' even though there was no sign they had ever been used in the 4 years he had been driving around with them (from the receipts). Greg

Reply to
Greg

It's already got those, chassis legs. I'd rather be hit by a small car than a large 4x4, or a van, or a lorry, or in fact just about anything. But if you go through life thinking "but what about if I hit a kid", you'll end up not wanting to go out in a car at all. Then of course fretting about getting stuff delivered as delivery van drivers are a breed apart when it comes to driving in built-up areas and lorries on small roads are a real danger that give me chills on a regular basis on my local roads.

At the end of the day, if you have a reasonable need for a heavyweight bumper then go for it, but neither you nor I would regard wanting to look tough as a good reason. Others do have good reason, and I'd regard mashing up the standard bumper on a regular basis as a good reason.

If you're truly worried about bashing into kids flitting about in the roads, then you've bought the wrong car. The insurance industry released figures that show the Defender is the car in which the occupants are most likely survive accidents in which deaths occur, this was trumpeted as showing the defender is a safe vehicle to be in. Personally I think it shows the defender is more likely to kill someone in the other car, which is why it shows up so strongly in those stats.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

It's a strange reasoning that considers part of the standard design of the vehicle to be an add on...

Like it or not, it will shortly be illegal, in fact if you read the Directive it already is though I presume there is some sort of grace period.

Grer

Reply to
Greg

Does that matter if you're worried about mashing kids?

I've not seen it, does anyone have any links to some pukka documentation? I doubt very much that it's going to be made illegal, there are always so many clauses and overriders in any legislation that chances are there'll be plenty of leeway for things like winch bumpers or replacement bumpers.

Reply to
Ian Rawlings

Here is the directive:

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The directive was passed nearly 2 years ago so hasn't exactly come as a surprise!. Wading through all the chaff it appears to have come into force from 25/5/07.

And here is the amendment ot British law to incorporate it, not that our government has any choice when Europe speaks 8-)

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Greg

Reply to
Greg

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