FS td5 engine line

Things must be different in your neck of the woods, round here Defender has ousted the opposition big time over the last four or five years.

I've never heard a farmer moan about "features" - it's a tool for job, not a limo! Comfort gets a mention in the context of "I'd not like to drive to Scotland in it" - but then thats not what they buy them for, they have their Discovery for that (Discovery I's that is, Discovery II and III are not liked much). Reliability is nowhere near as bad as it was (sadly..... selling parts ..... mutter mutter ;-) ). The interesting thing about reliabilty that we see on our travels is that, for vehicles that actually *work* for a living and get treated as funtional tools, the cometition isn't that far ahead - and one particular maufacturer makes LR look good (Jeep - massive problems with rear axles, and then getting parts).

Richard

Speaking from the farming point of view - round here almost no farmers use Defenders - there is no dealer network worth talking about is the main reason probably, but for a generation it has been a choice of a 'Cruiser or Patrol. Landrover lost the market here in the eighties if not earlier, with poor support, inadequate (diesel) power, and bad marketing. JD

It does seem to be true that the presence and/or enthusiasm of the dealerships makes a huge difference. In Hampshire there were very few around until a new dealership opened near Horndean, and then promptly got scaled back when LR had the bright idea of forcing dealerships to spend around £1 million each on tarting the premises up and thereby lost around 2/3 of the dealer network - vitrtually all of the closing ones being in rural areas, i.e. exactly where they needed to be selling them. A stoke of true genius.

Richard

In Australia, i think it was much more about the availability of a much better vehicle, in particular the landcruiser. with the brand new td5 defenders, they are only now getting to the power and torque level that the toyotas had back in the early 80s. after owning a shitty old 1980 diesel landcruiser with probably about 200,000 ks on the clock, and now a 1978 s3 petrol with only 60,000 ks on the clock, i can categorically say if i had any "sense" i would have stuck with the 'cruiser.

i mean, 2.25 litres of petrol fury versus the hugely understressed 4.2 litre donk in the 'cruiser? and 2.25 litres of four-cylinder diesel grunt versus the 4 litre six cylinder (with turbo option) in the 'cruiser.

Sam.

its in the back of machinery classified ( trade mag ) ! sale by tendor !

Chris thanks.

Unfortunately we do not get this magazine here in Greece.

Take care Pantelis

its subscription only ! may be something on the web site machinaryclassified.co.uk or something similar afraid my copys already gone in the bin ...

its subscription only ! may be something on the web site machinaryclassified.co.uk or something similar afraid my copys already gone in the bin ...

On or around Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:17:51 +1000, JD enlightened us thusly:

probably true, and probably Italy...

was a bum decision, though, as witness the sales of 3.1l and 3.0l isuzus,

On or around Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:49:21 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd enlightened us thusly:

The only vehicle that's really competed seriously in the farming market is the later Daihatsu Foutrak; and they've stopped making them now, which makes a good late-model one worth more than it looks. Very tough vehicle, once they'd solved the "rots away in 3 years" issues.

and that, too, grew to have a 2.8 engine and a 2.8 TDi finally.

On or around Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:06:36 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd enlightened us thusly:

There are quite a lot being bought around this area too - the people who were into fourtraks can't get a new one any more, and a lot of them have recent 90s. There are quite a lot of nipponese double cab pickups, but still plenty of 90s. very few 110s, mind.

On or around Sat, 20 Aug 2005 12:43:44 +0100, "Huw" enlightened us thusly:

Unless they've split up again, Iveco and Ford are part of the same thing, so an Iveco would be a likely choice.

Are many of those under four years old? There must be a few but the market is not what it was. I see more and more 4x4 pick-ups with people who used to run 90's and Daihatsu commercials but who never dreamt of having a 110 pick-up. I talked to a dealer far to the South of you when I bought the RR and he said he had not sold a 90 in three months at that time. This in the middle of what must be a huge and fertile agricultural area. He had sold over 10 Mitsubishi pick-up trucks in that same period. Farmers tend to favour British products for good reason so there is something dreadfully amiss with the Defender for today's market.

Huw

Did they ever? Late model 'independent' have been suffering catastrophic failures due to rot of the tube that crosses between chassis members between the rear wheels. You know the one? The pipe that has the axle breather attached to it. These things are rotting away and the chassis falls apart on vehicles only around six years old. The Daihatsu was only ever bought on its low price and initial reliability. Never on long term quality or performance, although the

Huw

The relationship between Iveco and Ford is basically one of Iveco having purchased the Ford medium and heavy truck business. The latest fruit of co-operation between Iveco and other companies is the setting up of the European Engine Alliance business with partners Cummins and New Holland. Experience so far would suggest that they have the basis for a damn fine family of engines to carry them into a more emissionised future.

Huw

The early Landcruisers (up to late 1970s at least) had serious problems with reliability, handling, bodywork, but they had several major advantages - power as you say, also 126" (from memory) wheelbase ute which allowed a bigger tray than the 109 Landrover despite the bigger engine, helped by the wider track as well, and then they had a growing dealer network as sales of their ordinary cars boomed. Much the same for the Patrol, although it became competitive later. I remember it being slated by one of the magazines for major structural failure while being road tested - I think the front axle housing broke in two. But unlike Landrover, Toyota and Nissan rapidly rectified problems as they showed up, probably part of the strong and growing dealer network and growing sales.

The Landrover 110/130 has actually outperformed the diesel Landcruiser/Patrol since the introduction of the 200Tdi, and the 3.9 Isuzu available since the late seventies in the Stage 1 and 110 was not far behind, but the battle was largely lost by then anyway. Another thing Landrover handed to Toyota on a tray was a lot of sales here when you could not buy Landrovers in the early seventies because the entire Australian allocation was going to the army.

Whether you consider the eighties Landcruiser better than the contemporary Landrover is a matter for discussion, but the fact is the market did prefer it - largely because of the power and size, and partly because of the better dealer network. JD

Chris thanks.

I will have a look at the link you quoted.

Take care and thanks again Pantelis

Interesting... with a couple of exceptions independents cannot sell new Defenders (until the new EU rules come along that is), so I'd find your "local" LR main dealershp and ask them - you'll be put on the end of a (curently) 2 to 3 month waiting list for any model Defender, and a lot longer if you want a particular variant/colour/ spec. The typical farm 90 in these parts is either a late 300Tdi (not many still working on the farm) or a new to 3 years old Td5 (i.e. still under warranty) - the gap being where other marques were tried. Double cabs etc are around here, but typically not used by farmers for daily farm work, and certainly not got dirty! Tyre company owners and hair dressers (seriously, not taking the piss) seem to quite like them.......

Richard

He is the main LR dealership. He also sells Jaguar, Mitsu and peugeot and, until recently, Rover.

and ask them - you'll be put

That is only because they have to be factory orders, mainly because dealers will not buy Defender for stock or on spec any more in most areas. The factory is hardly running its Defender line at full capacity these days but any factory order from any major manufacturer takes around 12 weeks to arive at the dealers premises.

Not that I am saying -you- are, but don't look at their sales through rose tinted specs. The fact is that sales are down drastically to farmers, partly due to their economic plight, and military sales have almost dried up completely. People were not realistic about Rover sales over the past 18 months but I forcast, just from the heamorrage of dealers, that their demise was not far off. Realistically, att the present rate, and unless they either build it in a low cost country or substantially update it, the Defender is not going to struggle on for long. That is all IMO of course and feel free to acknowledge it if it proves correct but do please forget it if the current shape Defender is still with us in four years time. :-)

Huw

Obvioulsy the market in your area is completelty different to this area - both main dealers have Defenders in the showroom (Stafford Land Rover and Stratstone (nee Evans-Halshaw), and sometimes have s/h ones on the forecourt (breifly - they go like hot cakes).

Admittedly the last figures I saw was around six months ago, but Defender production was the highest it had been for years at the factory. It's also worth noting that the Defender line does not run full-time, it's run when required and staff work on other (speeded-up) lines the rest of the time. This was introduced by BMW as a very effective way of improving efficiency and does not refect on sales.

I think it's fair to say, since we sell parts, accessories and service stuff, and deliver to all manner of garages (yes, we even supply one main dealer with Genuine Parts when requested) we have a pretty good idea of who is driving what and what they think of them - after all, we do have to manage our stock to match demand! Richard