200/300 series. My wife will only drive an auto, and we need something with 7 seats ideally. Thought an auto Tdi disco 200/300 would be a good option. Anything else with
7 seats and an auto box seem to have major problems with the auto box variant. Not that I'm just making up excuses to buy a LR! :-)
Is the disco auto box any good? I'm not bothered from a drive-ability point of view, more if it is going to be reliable. I don't recall hearing anything specifically bad about them.
|| Matthew Maddock wrote: ||| 200/300 series. My wife will only drive an auto, and we ||| need something with 7 seats ideally. Thought an auto Tdi ||| disco 200/300 would be a good option. Anything else with ||| 7 seats and an auto box seem to have major problems with ||| the auto box variant. Not that I'm just making up excuses ||| to buy a LR! :-) ||| ||| Is the disco auto box any good? I'm not bothered from a ||| drive-ability point of view, more if it is going to be ||| reliable. I don't recall hearing anything specifically ||| bad about them. ||| ||| Cheers, ||| ||| Matt || || I dont think i have heard anything bad about any of the auto boxes || fitted to any landies matey!!! || || Nige
No, pretty bulletproof IME. Check the transmission oil is a nice pink colour - cloudy or brown suggests it's been cooked and (according to Badger who posted on this a while ago) means the box might be on its way out.
Personally, I don't think the Tdi has enough power to cope with the extra transmission losses of an auto and still provide a good drive - my 300Tdi struggled with towing, even with a bigger intercooler and chip. YMMV.
|| Richard Brookman wrote: || ||| Personally, I don't think the Tdi has enough power to cope with the ||| extra transmission losses of an auto and still provide a good drive ||| - my 300Tdi struggled with towing, even with a bigger intercooler ||| and chip. YMMV. || || I don't think you can lay that deficiency at the door of the || transmission. The Tdi just lacks horses.
I think that's what I said.
|| I gave up a third of my horsespower moving from a 3.5 V8 to a 300Tdi || on an RRC and it shows. Effectively the same auto on both.
I moved from 225 in the RR4.6 to 111 in the Tdi. BIG difference.
I don't think it's the power losses in the auto compared with the manual that are the issue - isn't that where you're laying the blame?
111/115 HP or whatever is just not enough to propel two tons plus caravan uphill at the sort of speeds we were used to. By the sound of it you've already compensated for the autobox losses with intercooler and chipping and are still way short of what you would like.
The fuel does go further but the 'fun' just isn't there, is it?
OK, will bear that in mind. All sounding good so far - just hope I can persuade SWMBO that she *can* drive something that big! Seems like a good option - can't really afford to run 3 vehicles. A Tdi Disco would take out the need for 2 of those, and in many cases would be a suitable substitute for the van.
I'm not really bothered about flying around the place, so slow doesn't bother me. It probably won't be doing that much mileage anyway, just to the local supermarket and the odd trip to the airport down the motorway. Even so - I don't want to run a V8 (much as I'd like to!) I've run several in the past and I know exactly how thirsty they are! its got to be diesel. I'd really like to get another P38 diesel, but my budget just won't go that far right now :-(
Cheers for the replies. Will start looking out for one and subtly e-mailing them to SWMBO until she relents!
Sounds as though our reasons for getting a Discovery were much the same as yours. SWMBO is ok driving but is beginning to feel a little self concious in such a large vehicle. I may have to line the glass with that stuff that drug dealers and minor celebs use. OTOH perhaps it's just a case of getting used to it.
Looking at it on the drive I'd say the Discovery is about 18" (maybe 2') shorter than the 110. I think only a life threatening event would prsuade SWMBO to drive the 110.
Most folk selling diesels seem to have an over inflated idea of the price (too fussy for me - I wouldn't give them space on the drive) - however, when you find the right one and feel you can keep it for a while, the odd £100 shouldn't become an obstacle. The purchase price of 2nd hand vehicles is generally a tiny part of the TCO.
|| Richard Brookman wrote: || ||||| I don't think you can lay that deficiency at the door of the ||||| transmission. The Tdi just lacks horses. ||| ||| I think that's what I said. || || You did! but ... || || I don't think it's the power losses in the auto compared with the || manual that are the issue - isn't that where you're laying the blame? || || 111/115 HP or whatever is just not enough to propel two tons plus || caravan uphill at the sort of speeds we were used to. By the sound of || it you've already compensated for the autobox losses with intercooler || and chipping and are still way short of what you would like. || || The fuel does go further but the 'fun' just isn't there, is it?
I see what you mean now. Yes, the Tdi lacks the horses, but I've spoken to many people who swear by the Tdi (manual) for towing. I've never had one, so I can't compare, but manual = great tug, auto = struggling suggests that the autobox may be the deciding factor.
|| I'm not really bothered about flying around the place, so slow || doesn't bother me.
It's not just slow that's the problem - as Chavscum says, a heavy right foot will compensate for that. It's the way that with any kind of load or hill, you will not get it into top gear below about 55mph. I got tired of the noise and general frazzle of going almost everywhere in 3rd. Once on the motorway and up to speed, it was fine - until the road went uphill. :-).
It may feel that the Disco is changing from 3rd to 4th at 55mph, but in most situations it is the torque converter locking up, or going 'solid'. The Disco is often in 4th at much lower speeds, and the torque coverter is set to slip at varying speeds depending on the year model, relating to the Tdi 200 or Tdi300 bhp ratings, and torque outputs. It appears that the settings ranged from 48mph to 55mph from early to late years. I've had four diesel Discos and the settings got higher with the latest models. The torque converter noise and the effect of slipping was a pain to me, and I complained many times to Land Rover, but got no satisfaction, so in the end I changed to Manual Box, it's a lot quieter. None of the Autos have been faulty, always reliable, --- but that torque converter was awful. Gordon
|| It may feel that the Disco is changing from 3rd to 4th at 55mph, but || in most situations it is the torque converter locking up, or going || 'solid'.
Typical scenario: pulling a caravan (1.3t) on a level road. Up to 50mph, third gear. ~50mph, revs drop as it goes into 4th. ~55mph, revs drop again as TC locks up.
As others have said, the power of the 300Tdi is not going to win any races. personally I find that it is the gear ratios of the auto that cause most of the problems.
I find that when the raod starts pointing up, you either labour up in lockup top at 89-100km/h but you need to wait till about 80km/h before selecting 3rd or the engine will just sound unpleasant.
As said towing just makes things a lot worse.
i am gnerally very happy with my wagon (96 Disco 300Tdi auto) but when I replace it I will definitely look at a manual as I think the ratios are better selected but I will miss the easy driving of the auto.
Basically, it's a good reliable box. However, it has one main common failing that is easy to check and easy to prevent, that of premature "A" clutch wear, and the odd other faults that are also easy to check for.
There are piston-ring type total-seal rings that in theory seal oil passages within the rotating input shaft and static stator shaft at the front of the box. As these seals wear, they allow a bleed of oil from the outlet of the main pump to partially apply the main "A" clutch in the box. This clutch is permanently applied in all forward gears but released in P, R and N. If it is applied in P, R or N, the clutch slips, causing wear. This situation can be caused by excessively (continuously and regularly) revving the engine in P or N, or sitting the engine at, say, 3000rpm in the case of setting up LPG on a V8. The "cure" (preventive measure) is to put the transfer box in N and main box in D, 3, 2 or 1 if you need to sit revving the engine for any length of time, as this ensures the "A" clutch is applied and not slipping.
The method of checking for the seal wear (carefully), is to drive the vehicle for at least 20minutes to ensure the oil has thinned out as it reaches operating temp; then put the box in N, rev to 2400 (ish) rpm and see if it creeps forward with the brakes off. Please make sure you have LOTS of clear space in front when you do this, to be safe! No need to hold the revs up, just accelerate the engine slowly and if you get to 2400ish with no creeping, back to idle.
Dip the oil, it ought to be clear, translucent red - if it's brown or dirty this indicates clutch pack wear, walk away!
If the shift from 1 to 2 (D selected) is overly fierce or delayed to quite a highish rpm, this is an indication of governor sticking issues; quite common really, a lot of people just don't realise that it isn't meant to be that fierce a shift!
There is another issue whereby you select D and it doesn't drive, but you can select 1 and pull away then go manually through the box right up to D with no problems. This is a sprag (one-way) roller bearing clutch right in the centre of the box that has "failed". The rollers have "flipped over" internally and the box needs removing and stripping to fix. This can be caused by selecting a forward gear at too high an rpm, or over-zealous acceleration from a standing start with a powerful engine. (won't apply to TDi's then!!)
Rpm rises with a "squealing" noise before the vehicle drives - normally low oil level or a very dirty internal filter. Ask yourself why the filter is dirty though, where is the dirt or debris coming from, the clutch packs wearing??
Don't let this put you off an autobox though, they are essentially very reliable bits of kit that will go for easily well over 130,000miles given the correct routine maintenance. I know of some with nearly 200,000 miles that have had no issues. The failures quoted here are the typical failure modes with the box, the overall failure rate is very low when used in the way the manufacturer designed it. We run a zf box from a range rover classic in one of our racers, it is abused severely (banged into gear at rpm's well above idle, held against the brakes with throttle applied etc etc) and it has survived 3 or 4 seasons of Hillrally and Comp Safari use since fitting, although the oil is starting to show clutch wear debris now. It was lifted from a motor with 80-odd thou on the clock, and apart from a mod to the valve body to prevent the convertor clutch locking in 4th, it was thrown into the racer with no other work being done to it!
Be warned though, in my opinion a tdi with an autobox is rather lethargic, especially when towing. :-)
Cheers for that Badger, top tips. Will definitely bear them in mind.
Sadly I don't have the manual option as SWMBO will *only* drive an auto no questions, no haggling, if it's not an idiot box she won't drive it! Not that I have anything against auto's per se, I actually find driving her auto beemer around town very easy and relaxing (tho it does have a nice juicy straight-six under the bonnet!). But - I don't want to run two cars (plus a van) after we move, and I want a LR (naturally!) so thought the best option given limited budget was an older Disco. Would like a 110, but you just don't get them in auto's unless someone has stuck a RR V8 or similar engine into one, and then you are talking ££££ - plus I don't think I could persuade her to drive a 110 whatever! Yes, I know they are only a fraction bigger than a Disco, but try telling a woman that - those extra couple of inches make all the difference - so she tells me! :-D
You don't, well, not without specialist flushing equipment anyway. Just drain what you can (about half the contents) regularly and it'll be fine. (Regularly, as in landrover's recommended change interval) Badger.
On or around Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:08:03 +0100, "Richard Brookman" enlightened us thusly:
to be fair, though, you'd have the same problem with a big van and a manual TDi - they aren't that fast towing a big trailer, especially on any significant hill.
mind, they make a 2¼ diesel look like a racehorse on steroids. How often did you have to use low box? Towing with a 110 2.5 petrol I had to use low box on a few occasions...
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