iceberg diesel

Would the block take such an increase in internal pressure? may be interesting as an academic excercise I suppose.

Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)

The iceberg block had steel wishbones cast into it I think. Also IIRC it was an indirect injection engine, the trend has been to direct injection with smaller capacities and turbos to get the power.

AJH

Smokeyone Hi,

I do not think it is worth the trouble. If you want V8 diesel power the GMC engine is readily available and quite cheap.

Take care Pantelis

Thank you all for the replies. Does'nt the GM v8 weight a lot. Also I did wonder about the rover v8 taking around 18 to 1 compression - I was actually thinking along the lines of the 4.6 block - non turbo. I did not realise the rover engineers had steel cast into the block for their project.

Smokeyone

Smokeyone Hi again,

The GMC V8 weight 350 kilos which is almost the same as the Tdi and about 50 kilos more than a V8. And it is FAR mor powerful and torquey as an engine.

Take care Pantelis

Yes, the GM block is too heavy really for a landy, it totally screws up the front/rear weight bias and tends to tear front spring mounts from the chassis rails!! The 3.5 rover block (assuming it is a late "stiff-block") is theoretically the stronger of the production std blocks, due to having more metal around the liners. This is bourne out by the fact that 3.5 blocks do not suffer from liner shift or cracking, unlike std 3.9 and above. In theory, you could fit special diesel pistons with an extra oil ring at the bottom of the skirt, "o"ring the head gaskets to cope with the extra compression and run it as a Direct Injection at roughly 18:1cr, fitting modern 2-stage injectors via the plug holes. The smoother initial burn characteristics of the 2 stage injectors would relieve a lot of the stress and strain that I believe plagued the iceberg engines during development. Hell, you could go the whole hog and have a common-rail DI system - 8 TD6 injectors and its engine-driven HP diesel pump, running via 2 modified TD4 or BMW 2.0td ecu's, each ecu running 4 cylinders, and a couple of 200TDI turbos hanging off the sides! Now that could be an interesting project...... Over to you, Austin! Badger.

I started drooling already. Badger you really do know how to make people dive into deep water !!!!!

What is the weight of a V8 3.5 or 3.9 with its ancillaries? My carriers charge me for around 300 to 350 kilos for such an engine on a pallette but I do take your opinion much more seriously than that of my carriers since I am sure that the add a few cement bags on their scale......

Take care Pantelis

project......

AIUI the Rover V8 is about 100kg lighter than the GM PETROL V8 which itself is significantly lighter than their diesel offering. IME the GM V8 diesels seem to weigh up at about 380kg dry and ready for install.

It's not the weight that's likely to be the problem, more the power characteristics.

The older 6.2 :-

120 kW @ 3800 rpm 400 Nm @ 1800 rpm 300Kg

6.5 :-

127 kW @ 3500 rpm interpolated from graph 414 Nm @ 2000 rpm ditto

td5 defender spec :-

90 kW @ 4200 rpm 300 Nm @ 1950 rpm

So even with all that extra power and torque how are you going to get that to the wheels and maintain a decent cruising speed?

Up the diff ratios and the gearbox takes all the strain, similar with the transfer ratios. Bear in mind one of the reasons for moving to constant 4wd was to share the load on the half shafts.

Put a planet and annular gear between the engine and the box like the mv types do when changing a B80 for a diesel and how do you accommodate the extra length?

AJH

Sorry! Teeheehee. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a petrol derived v8 in my landy any day, but also owning a bmw 330dSE sport (Same basic core engine as TD6, 185bhp and 288 lbf.ft) has awakened me to just how powerful and clean modern diesels really are.

I *think* it's about 220kg, but that's a figure I've heard from others, never actually weighed one myself. Badger.

Could someone explain about the AJH comment of putting a planet and annual gear between engine and gearbox like the mv types do.

Thanks Smokeyone

On or around 28 Mar 2005 21:41:03 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@btopenworld.com enlightened us thusly:

I think he's talking about an epicyclic gear set. This could be used to gear up (or down) the output of the engine and or gearbox, main point would be that if you fit a lower-speed engine, you could regain your road speed.

It's not epicyclic as this involves 3 gears and a possible change in direction of rotation. It's an annular gear driven straight off the engine, inside this is a gear with less teeth which driven the gearbox.

The output is thus slightly offset. In the case of something like a stalwart running a b81 engine at 4000rpm on petrol at 3mpg it makes sense to pop in the multifuel engine which peaks at 2700rpm and runs on red diesel or discarded petrol diesel mixes from AA/RAC.

I've got one used to step up tractor pto speeds, it's stripped down so the internals are obvious.

AJH

On or around Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:35:25 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@despammed.com enlightened us thusly:

OK, I see.

The Sierra 4x4 uses an epicyclic gear as a 2/3:1/3 torque-biasing diff. This, I reckoned, is clever. Once you know that an epicyclic gear will work as a diff, it's obvious how; but I'd never have thought of it meself.

I didn't know that. Makes sense though, it means the diff gears are constantly rotating in relation to each other but imagine that's no big deal.

Nor me, I can often see how things work but lack the imagination to think them up myself.

If you want to get your head around a real chinese puzzle have a look at the geartrain in one of the hybrids, in essence it's like your for torque biasing epicyclic but they get it to work as a cvt by applying load, via an alternator, to one of the outputs. This load then splits the output from the engine between itself and the wheels via the torque multiplication effect. The (far lesser) power from the alternator then either being stored to battery or applied to the wheels itself in some way that is not apparent to me.

Bank holiday has messed me up, had the old argument with the MOT station about class 4 MOT and dual purpose, weighbridge didn't open til 9:30 and now first booking I can get is Friday :-(. I normally test the 1 month in advance but have been working away.

Incidentally the LR110 with twin 35ltr volume (total 55ltr capacity) lpg tanks and no spare came in at 1860kg even with some tools and spare battery.

Badger thanks.

I will be driving a TDV6 Discovery during the weekend as a guest of the second presentation of the new vehicle (being the founder of the LR club of Greece does have its rewards....)

Having heard one operating on the road I can only say that it is amazingly quiet.

more impression on Monday.

But you are right a nicely tuned and well serviced and maintained LR V8 engine is a joy to use and hear (not to feed with petrol though)

Take care Pantelis