So our Ken, Mayor of London, is proposing some sort of ban on large, polluting, gas guzzling 4x4's entering the city and seems to be receiving some applause from various sections. Whilst this would not affect most manufacturers much, e.g.Toyota would just sell more cars, what effect would it have on Land Rover who don't make anything else other than the aforementioned 4x4's? Also, I wonder if a Defender van would be caught up in this too, I know two workmen that use these in preference to a normal van.
Is it me, or are we no longer living in a democracy.
Couldn't I get round that by registering as a bus ?
And could he really ban any landie being used by a utility or for breakdown recovery or any of the other multitude of legitimate uses, after all is my landie worse than the ubiquitos white van ?
In any case I would just go out and buy an old bus just to spite the bugger.
I will confess what I do. I am a Reverend (Methodist) and live in the north East. I have four chidlren and so need at least a six seater and if we are going to carry the pram a seven seater. So I need a large vehicle.
Further complicated with this is the need to go out in any weather if I need to visit one of my congregation, deal with someone who is dying or has died. To go and visit a number of old people and to be able to use my Disco for fishing (I sometimes have to go up some rather interestig tracks).
So is Ken and other politicians saying that when at the end of March I was called out at 10 p.m. at night and it was snowing heavily (at least 4 inches of snow on the road) with only me on the road in my landrover I should not have gone out? So the old lady who was frightened of dying who I went and spent an hour with, holding her hand, comforting her, this was not legitimate. She died peacefully after I had read the 23rd Psalm to her.
I sometimes wonder if Ken and other politicians think through what they are saying.
Is it Gwynneth Dunwoody who said all cars should be banned. Now come on what happens when I get a call to the hospital at 3 a.m. as a little girl from my congregation has had a bleed in her stomach and is dying. Should I wait for a taxi (a bus , at 3 a.m.) or should I get there immediately. Or when a baby is about to die and I need to baptise it in hospital.
We don't live in a democracy cos no one can be bothered to vote unless its for big brother
The EU is a smokescreen - if you want really powerful organisations to blame try the WTO and the IMF which have far mor effects on our lives and I don't remember electing their members. While we argue about europe the wto attacks legislation consumer safety legislation,workers rights, environmental measures and wants the ability to sue governments for lost profits caused by 'restrictive' (their definition) legislation (including forcing us to import and sell GM food without any form of labelling on it so that stops us choosing not to use it
In a democracy our right to freedom has always been limited by the fact of restrictions based on not harming others (thats whhy its illegal to kill someone!) so we have to judge if the use of unsuitable vehicles in london is a problem (that could well apply to sports cars and big engined vehicles too), then that freedom may need to be reduced for the common good.
Note I am not backing either side on this but we must see the differences in uses - if you live in a rural area then the use of a 4x4 may well be desirable and nessesary, in a large city maybe not - Kens comments seem to be aimed quite squarely at London use of 4x4's . Maybe the conjestion charge should be higher for these types of vehicles. Are we willing to pay the price to run our 4x4s ? As most eat more fuel and don't have lower roa tax the answer is probabily yes.
I've met him on a good number of occasions over the years. Like him or loath him, he tells it the way he sees it. I prefer to see this in any publicly elected representative rather than the spin and skim, lies and simple overall fraud that is currently seen as 'politics'.
Tony Benn reckons that the current electoral system gives everyone the ability to collectively sack their MP should they so desire. Ken once wrote (also the title of his autobiography): "If voting changed anything, they'd abolish it".
On the understanding that big 4x4's guzzle fuel, are big and heavy, low miles to gallon. I propose we ban all big cars of same ilk eg. Bentley's, Rollers, Jaguars ( or two ) etc. Won't half bugger up the ministerial perks for the jerks ??
I seem to remember a time ago the term NIMBY was the in word, seems its back. Wonder what school little Livinstone will go to ........... London Oratory perhaps ??
On what basis should we pay more for 4 wheel drive?
Engine size? OK so that applies to several cars - Rolls Royce, Bentley, some Mercs, Jags etc etc What about small 4x4s - Suzukis, Series LR. Defender diesels are only 2.5 litres compared to some diesel cars.
Footprint - no bigger than many cars.
Emissions - company car tax system is now based on emission so the bigger, dirtier the engine the higher the tax
Fuel consumption - the more fuel you use the more fuel tax and vat you pay, and that is a very high proportion of the actual fuel charge.
Risk to pedestrians? The biggest danger to them arises from the standard bumper height introduced by the motor manufacturers in the 1950s long before safety figured in their thinking and unfortunately the height they chose is about he worst possible. A 4x4 would naturally have a higher bumper height which would be less damaging if not artificially lowered to comply with this standard.
Height - as suggested in the Guardian this week? Well, Ken should visit the M6 Toll booths and see that a Landrover is classified as a car whereas an MPV, being higher is classed as a van.
4 wheel drive? That is an option on Transit vans ( and others), Renault Espace etc, and, oh yes, not forgetting the Lada. And what if you have
2/4 wheel drive like a series LR, Jeep Cherokee/Ford Ranger etc? Yes you can bring it in to London provided you keep it in 2 wheel drive?
This move is just a distraction to draw attention away from his other transport problems - not that it worries me - I wouldn't want to go near the dirty stinking place let alone drive in it.
Just like Land Rover, excellent at the start then all the bits start to fall of so it has to be propped up by enthusiasts ........ then along comes Ford and buggers it all up
My understanding is that Ken wants 4x4's banned in London and others, especially some Lib Dems, want a ban on the School Run nationwide. How they intend to legislate that beggars belief and may well show up their ignorance of the types of vehicles involved. i.e. how about an Audi TT Quattro, would that be banned? It's certainly 4x4. If they do it on size then most MPV's would also be caught, and how about the rich kid in the Roller or the poor kid in the old Granada smoker. I reckon it would be almost impossible to legislate for and to police.
The answer is more school buses together with proper car parking at or near the schools, and education of parents, but that's the positive approach and politicians aren't ever into that 'cause it costs money instead of bringing more in.
Interestingly, as an example of how a politician thinks, I believe it's the French that intend to have a special extra £2,500 Purchase Tax on 4x4's.
My original question was on the effect that sort of thing will have on Land Rover who make nothing other than 4x4's. A LR car perhaps.
-- Regards Bob
1974 LR S111 2.25 petrol "88" H/top
1987 LR 90 2.5 petrol H/top
2004 BMW330i Sport (the wife's)
But give him a few F1 cars, and he is planning his first race..
Just think of the charges for every truck the teams bring in, the two race cars plus the spare, the safety cars. Dammit, why not slap a charge on the little tractors that pick up the jordans after the engine goes!!
A typical Chirac move - guess which countries automotive manufacturers do not actually build any 4x4's (how I hate the term SUV). Just means the French will order them from Belgian dealers.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.